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  • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
    Belview port or across the river from t. And yes the need for dredging is pretty clear. As for logistical requirements - not so sure. How much of a port does London have?
    I wouldn't compare the Thames Estuary with Waterford and I would say London Gateway is overtaking Tilbury

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    • You can dredge all you want, but the Suir, Nore and Barrow will refill it with silt weekly.
      Hydro dynamics will decide where the mud goes. Move if and it will just block up somewhere else. The reclaimation of rungaskiddy caused severe silting in other sides of the harbour. Whitegate for example, up to the early 80s had 3 usable piers. A combination of reclaimation at Aghada and Ringaskiddy means these piers are now dry except for a 4 hour window daily. Rowing regatta which were once a weekly event, can now only take place during a favourable spring tide, when there is enough water to lift the football sized lane marker buoys.
      Even with dredging at Duncannon, you are still only opening the port to slightly larger ships that currently call. You can't change the long trip upriver, (presumably under costly pilot) to Bellview. This is why Port of Cork has moved downstream, to remove this half hour trip from visiting vessels.
      Cork has a minimum of 11m below datum as far as the new port with the old berth maintained at 13.4m. A vessel fully laden at that draft can enter or leave at any state of tide.
      Shipowners dont like being constrained by tides where possible.
      For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, which is published, but after discussion with parties in government will probably commence being implemented in May or June.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
        You can dredge all you want, but the Suir, Nore and Barrow will refill it with silt weekly.
        Hydro dynamics will decide where the mud goes. Move if and it will just block up somewhere else. The reclaimation of rungaskiddy caused severe silting in other sides of the harbour. Whitegate for example, up to the early 80s had 3 usable piers. A combination of reclaimation at Aghada and Ringaskiddy means these piers are now dry except for a 4 hour window daily. Rowing regatta which were once a weekly event, can now only take place during a favourable spring tide, when there is enough water to lift the football sized lane marker buoys.
        Even with dredging at Duncannon, you are still only opening the port to slightly larger ships that currently call. You can't change the long trip upriver, (presumably under costly pilot) to Bellview. This is why Port of Cork has moved downstream, to remove this half hour trip from visiting vessels.
        Cork has a minimum of 11m below datum as far as the new port with the old berth maintained at 13.4m. A vessel fully laden at that draft can enter or leave at any state of tide.
        Shipowners dont like being constrained by tides where possible.
        In bygone days the State had a number of dredgers in permanent use, including the old Sisyphus. All that ended in the 1970's. Now the State has NO means of maintaining harbours. The port development, EU funded , at Belleview included building 3 Groines from opposite shore to speed flow and move mud , which it did , but is now silting up Cheekpoint boat harbour. Dredging would be needed twice a year to keep Cheekpoint open-if we had a dredger. Dredging is part of all Harbour endeavours but we wait to be buried before getting in somebody to do it for us. Whitegate was always short of depth and operated boating in the highwater window. The State inherited a range of ports and dredgers but being Sea Blind they pushed it into the Private sector and the lucrative tender business. Our only hope for the future is to educate a range of Hydraulic Engineers and have such a Department in the Office of Public Works. Perhaps build hydraulic models of our major ports for College instruction and experimentation. Doing nothing is not an option. We are an Island.

        Comment


        • Most of the general public are unaware of the progress in nuclear energy.

          Interesting presentations here on future energy requirements via Gen IV Thorium technology such as Molten Salt Reactors.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHO1ebNxhVI

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs8p8rYRLBM

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7o9Uu0ey2s

          Recently the Japanese Government has placed Gen IV Thorium as the priority future energy strategy, which is likely to act as a catalyst in terms of the investment and backing the Thorium sector needed.
          Last edited by Anzac; 9 August 2019, 11:51.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
            In bygone days the State had a number of dredgers in permanent use, including the old Sisyphus. All that ended in the 1970's. Now the State has NO means of maintaining harbours. The port development, EU funded , at Belleview included building 3 Groines from opposite shore to speed flow and move mud , which it did , but is now silting up Cheekpoint boat harbour. Dredging would be needed twice a year to keep Cheekpoint open-if we had a dredger. Dredging is part of all Harbour endeavours but we wait to be buried before getting in somebody to do it for us. Whitegate was always short of depth and operated boating in the highwater window. The State inherited a range of ports and dredgers but being Sea Blind they pushed it into the Private sector and the lucrative tender business. Our only hope for the future is to educate a range of Hydraulic Engineers and have such a Department in the Office of Public Works. Perhaps build hydraulic models of our major ports for College instruction and experimentation. Doing nothing is not an option. We are an Island.
            We are indeed an island but one made of small silos. I do not think that the State should be in control of everything but there are certain strategic infrastructure items which need the state to be in-control. Ports and other marine infrastructure are ones along with airports and roads. As we are a small nation we do not need loads of different port authorities all battling against each other, just look at what happened with the HSE. It would be better to have a strong single Port Authority developing and maintaining out port capacity for the overall good of the nation. A single independent authority would have the resources to conduct the necessary research, educate hydraulic engineers and maintain the equipment to ensure the operation of their ports.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
              We are indeed an island but one made of small silos. I do not think that the State should be in control of everything but there are certain strategic infrastructure items which need the state to be in-control. Ports and other marine infrastructure are ones along with airports and roads. As we are a small nation we do not need loads of different port authorities all battling against each other, just look at what happened with the HSE. It would be better to have a strong single Port Authority developing and maintaining out port capacity for the overall good of the nation. A single independent authority would have the resources to conduct the necessary research, educate hydraulic engineers and maintain the equipment to ensure the operation of their ports.
              In the model of Port Ownership I think we decided (as we do many times) to follow the UK's policy on Ports rather than other EU nations policies (though it can go the other way in some states), I'm not sure now if we could get away with bringing them into one entity in regards to EU rules. But yes it can be frustrating when you have the Ports acting against each other at times.

              Comment


              • The ports? The south of dublin port is competing with the north.
                For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, which is published, but after discussion with parties in government will probably commence being implemented in May or June.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                  The ports? The south of dublin port is competing with the north.
                  No like how Waterford objected to planning for Ringaskiddy's development as a tactical move, just increases costs long term.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
                    Most of the general public are unaware of the progress in nuclear energy.

                    Interesting presentations here on future energy requirements via Gen IV Thorium technology such as Molten Salt Reactors.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHO1ebNxhVI

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs8p8rYRLBM

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7o9Uu0ey2s

                    Recently the Japanese Government has placed Gen IV Thorium as the priority future energy strategy, which is likely to act as a catalyst in terms of the investment and backing the Thorium sector needed.
                    To be honest Thorium 90 and it's uses is not a Eureka moment. It has been used in nuclear energy but particularly when bombarded with neutrons, it becomes Uranium 233, a much used material for nuclear weapons. The promotion of its use has to overcome all the usual problems- mining- refining- cost of acquisition-illegal diversion to other uses such as U-233. Other than that No problem.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                      To be honest Thorium 90 and it's uses is not a Eureka moment. It has been used in nuclear energy but particularly when bombarded with neutrons, it becomes Uranium 233, a much used material for nuclear weapons.
                      Uranium-233 other than the odd research project has rarely been used for nuclear weapons as it is much shorter-lived than the uranium-235 and does not produce enough yield. There is no eureka moment but its prospects for being the only non intermittent baseline energy source that we know of that produces virtually zero carbon that can power cities like Tokyo that have the population of Canada, no wonder the Japanese (who know and have experienced the effects of old school nuclear energy) are banking on it, as are a number of countries. When people like Michael "Hockey Stick" Mann and James Hansen or NASA, leading Climate change scientists endorse it to combat climate change, then I tend to sit up and take notice. More notice than some lobbyists for the commercially threaten renewable lobby.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
                        Uranium-233 other than the odd research project has rarely been used for nuclear weapons as it is much shorter-lived than the uranium-235 and does not produce enough yield. There is no eureka moment but its prospects for being the only non intermittent baseline energy source that we know of that produces virtually zero carbon that can power cities like Tokyo that have the population of Canada, no wonder the Japanese (who know and have experienced the effects of old school nuclear energy) are banking on it, as are a number of countries. When people like Michael "Hockey Stick" Mann and James Hansen or NASA, leading Climate change scientists endorse it to combat climate change, then I tend to sit up and take notice. More notice than some lobbyists for the commercially threaten renewable lobby.
                        Just pointing out that it had and has a weapon use. Thorium is present in Ireland in varying quantities. Irish geophysicists have done an aerial mapping exercise. It has already been proposed, in the past few years, as a possible fuel for small Thermal Breeder reactors. I am for clean energy, once the major radiation hazards are minimised. With the development of Thermal breeders in India , China, Canada, and now Japan there will be a depth of knowledge to allow us to make a sensible decision. From what I have read about Thorium it requires a high degree of handling in the matter of gamma Radiation. As I have said once it is a sure footed process let us consider it as an option in clean sustainable energy.

                        Comment


                        • When port management went private, the very first thing that happened was that management slashed jobs, awarded themselves huge pay rises and end user costs rose accordingly. Having charge of docks and wharves went from being a tedious civil service job to being a ticket to the lottery.

                          Comment


                          • On the other hand, work practices before privatisation were highly inefficient, rife with nepotism and cronyism, all the while being both a dangerous and humiliating place to work. Those who worked dockside were "picked" by foremen depending on the work to be done. Friends and those who were owed favours were first to get work. Many did not do any work but still got paid. Many more who turned up to get work, were not picked and went home literally empty handed, hoping that tomorrow would be a better day.
                            I remember being dockside in an irish port while a ship was departing. One "docker" was present. It was a relatively long ship and the pilot was keen to get going. Call came to let go and docker saunters to take off forward. I offered to let go aft as I was standing next to it and lines were slack. "No panic" he says. Meanwhile crew are waiting impatiently to bring lines in and are wondering why I, still in overalls having just got off the ship I was then working on, would not let go.
                            Eventually said docker wanders over and let's go the lines next to me. "I get paid for all the lines" was his obtuse observation.
                            Privatisation wiped out this nonsense and dockside became a safer place to work. Less accidents with overloaded cranes collapsing, less falls from height while working cargo. A much more tidy dockside.
                            The change from corkdocks to Port of Cork was dramatic in its positivity. I am certain many card schools suffered as a result of the changes though.
                            For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, which is published, but after discussion with parties in government will probably commence being implemented in May or June.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              On the other hand, work practices before privatisation were highly inefficient, rife with nepotism and cronyism, all the while being both a dangerous and humiliating place to work. Those who worked dockside were "picked" by foremen depending on the work to be done. Friends and those who were owed favours were first to get work. Many did not do any work but still got paid. Many more who turned up to get work, were not picked and went home literally empty handed, hoping that tomorrow would be a better day.
                              I remember being dockside in an irish port while a ship was departing. One "docker" was present. It was a relatively long ship and the pilot was keen to get going. Call came to let go and docker saunters to take off forward. I offered to let go aft as I was standing next to it and lines were slack. "No panic" he says. Meanwhile crew are waiting impatiently to bring lines in and are wondering why I, still in overalls having just got off the ship I was then working on, would not let go.
                              Eventually said docker wanders over and let's go the lines next to me. "I get paid for all the lines" was his obtuse observation.
                              Privatisation wiped out this nonsense and dockside became a safer place to work. Less accidents with overloaded cranes collapsing, less falls from height while working cargo. A much more tidy dockside.
                              The change from corkdocks to Port of Cork was dramatic in its positivity. I am certain many card schools suffered as a result of the changes though.
                              In general I agree with the outline sentiments of Gone to the Canner. Part of the problem were the work practices on the Docks and on the Ships, where the Unions where controlled by, and owned by Families who still surface on the wrong side of the law. However the Government is responsible for running the country and MUST control and oversee vital services such as Transport, Communications, Defence, Security, and Social matters. People who actually run most of these services have a different set of priorities , often killing off viable projects, in the interests of expediency or windfalls.
                              In these Brexit days the Government needs to take the reins.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                On the other hand, work practices before privatisation were highly inefficient, rife with nepotism and cronyism, all the while being both a dangerous and humiliating place to work. Those who worked dockside were "picked" by foremen depending on the work to be done. Friends and those who were owed favours were first to get work. Many did not do any work but still got paid. Many more who turned up to get work, were not picked and went home literally empty handed, hoping that tomorrow would be a better day.
                                I remember being dockside in an irish port while a ship was departing. One "docker" was present. It was a relatively long ship and the pilot was keen to get going. Call came to let go and docker saunters to take off forward. I offered to let go aft as I was standing next to it and lines were slack. "No panic" he says. Meanwhile crew are waiting impatiently to bring lines in and are wondering why I, still in overalls having just got off the ship I was then working on, would not let go.
                                Eventually said docker wanders over and let's go the lines next to me. "I get paid for all the lines" was his obtuse observation.
                                Privatisation wiped out this nonsense and dockside became a safer place to work. Less accidents with overloaded cranes collapsing, less falls from height while working cargo. A much more tidy dockside.
                                The change from corkdocks to Port of Cork was dramatic in its positivity. I am certain many card schools suffered as a result of the changes though.
                                Totally agree with a lot, but the question is and it is not just for ports; why could it not be accomplished by a semi-state if the political will was there.

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