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  • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
    Most of the general public are unaware of the progress in nuclear energy.

    Interesting presentations here on future energy requirements via Gen IV Thorium technology such as Molten Salt Reactors.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHO1ebNxhVI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs8p8rYRLBM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7o9Uu0ey2s

    Recently the Japanese Government has placed Gen IV Thorium as the priority future energy strategy, which is likely to act as a catalyst in terms of the investment and backing the Thorium sector needed.
    MSRs are 50s tech. And currently they are trying to solve the corrosion problems posed by that kind of substance. Not holding my breath.

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    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      Totally agree with a lot, but the question is and it is not just for ports; why could it not be accomplished by a semi-state if the political will was there.
      I hate saying this but the route to political power and personal fortune is tied up in board appointments and granting of contracts. The Dail is largely composed of people who will never be poor again. They operate on a quid pro quo basis and think everybody in Government Service is doing the same. They have no idea what is required to run a proper Defence capability and are happy to make a few changes on a generational time scale. The equipment budget is never fit for purpose. They are currently short of 1000 personnel and see it as an annual saving of Euro20m and in no other way. Such money should be used in up-scaling Defence capability. In general polititians think they own the Gross revenue, while in Africa they keep it for themselves, in our case it's shared with those that will enhance their future. The BIG Fellows and Girls.

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      • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
        MSRs are 50s tech. And currently they are trying to solve the corrosion problems posed by that kind of substance. Not holding my breath.
        So fuel cells then must be 1830's tech, wind turbines 1880's tech, solar cells from the 1940's ... the corrosion issue was solved 45 years ago at Oak Ridge by using Hastelloy-N in the molten salt outlined in the Research Paper by JW Kroger titled:

        EVALUATION OF HASTELLOY N ALLOYS AFTER NINE YEARS EXPOSURE TO BOTH A MOLTEN FLUORIDE SALT AND AIR AT TEMPERATURES FROM 700 TO 560°C

        It was concluded from this experiment that Hastelloy N is suitable for long-term use as a container material for the molten salt used in this test and has acceptable air oxidation resistance at the temperatures tested. Core temperature of an active MSR is 500-600°C, at atmospheric pressure.

        Science and engineering does not stand still and of course both the Japanese and Chinese during the last decade have further refined the chemical engineering originally outlined by Kroger noting that further dense pure metal (Ni or Co) coatings on the can effectively hinder the penetration of the molten fluoride and thus improve the corrosion resistance of the substrate remarkably at temperatures in excess of 900 C.

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        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          I hate saying this but the route to political power and personal fortune is tied up in board appointments and granting of contracts. The Dail is largely composed of people who will never be poor again. They operate on a quid pro quo basis and think everybody in Government Service is doing the same. They have no idea what is required to run a proper Defence capability and are happy to make a few changes on a generational time scale. The equipment budget is never fit for purpose. They are currently short of 1000 personnel and see it as an annual saving of Euro20m and in no other way. Such money should be used in up-scaling Defence capability. In general polititians think they own the Gross revenue, while in Africa they keep it for themselves, in our case it's shared with those that will enhance their future. The BIG Fellows and Girls.
          There is a history of the Irish Maritime scene, which was put together by Mr Basil Peterson and the then Irish Shipping Limited in 1961/62. It has a foreword by Taoiseach Sean Lemass and a comment by the relevant Minister Erskine Childers. The book is called " THE TURN OF THE TIDE " and outlines the shortage of Maritime capability pre WW11 and the effort to cobble together a 16 ship Merchant Service to supply our needs during that war.
          A study was undertaken, and a post war aspiration was put in place that being caught without resources and a means to guard them would never happen again. The outcome was the foundation of a Naval Service as part of the PDF and an intention to achieve a 200,000 DWT deep sea Cargo fleet. Initially the aspiration took off with the State Shipping company buiding up to 24 ships, some at home in the New Ship Building Yard at Cork.
          However in the 1980's the visionary Sean Lemass was well gone, and before that decade had elapsed, both the illustrious ISL and VCD were gone. In the circumstances we have NO deep sea Fleet and the Naval Service is struggling . I'm afraid that THE TURN OF THE TIDE was overtaken by a self inflicted Tsunami. The Book is worth having on the shelf with Tables showing the growing fleet right up to the Cliff edge.

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          • Whatever about a naval fleet, what state still operates, or has a share in, modern merchant vessels? In europe, privatisation of all state assets seem to have been the legacy of the 80s. We still have quite a decent tonnage under irish flags or irish ownership

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            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
              Whatever about a naval fleet, what state still operates, or has a share in, modern merchant vessels? In europe, privatisation of all state assets seem to have been the legacy of the 80s. We still have quite a decent tonnage under irish flags or irish ownership
              The list of ships regularly servicing Irish Ports North and South does not contain cargo ships flagged in this state except for some of Irish Ferries. Arklow ships come and go as tramps , not as dedicated cargo liners, and some of those are not Irish Flagged by dispute with Government.
              The Register up to 1955 was maintained by Board of Trade and is available on BT files. The Multifaceted site maintained by Mr. Ross's Department doesn't display the current list of the Register of Cargo ships. AFAIK no reputable Irish Company, servicing Ireland , owns deepsea tonnage. There are one or two cattle boats knocking about.
              A sole Island is sea dependent for import/Export. I'm sure AP Moeller was not impeded by his Government in owning almost a 1000 large ships. The bigger players internationally are owned in the Far East-all State owned. We are too small to depend on others and in conflict will again be found wanting.
              On the 17/18 August there were 20 ship movements in Dublin, 3 of those were Irish Ferries, the rest were non-Irish. Our Marine Development Office is hiding and missing Sean Lemass.

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              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                The list of ships regularly servicing Irish Ports North and South does not contain cargo ships flagged in this state except for some of Irish Ferries. Arklow ships come and go as tramps , not as dedicated cargo liners, and some of those are not Irish Flagged by dispute with Government.
                The Register up to 1955 was maintained by Board of Trade and is available on BT files. The Multifaceted site maintained by Mr. Ross's Department doesn't display the current list of the Register of Cargo ships. AFAIK no reputable Irish Company, servicing Ireland , owns deepsea tonnage. There are one or two cattle boats knocking about.
                A sole Island is sea dependent for import/Export. I'm sure AP Moeller was not impeded by his Government in owning almost a 1000 large ships. The bigger players internationally are owned in the Far East-all State owned. We are too small to depend on others and in conflict will again be found wanting.
                On the 17/18 August there were 20 ship movements in Dublin, 3 of those were Irish Ferries, the rest were non-Irish. Our Marine Development Office is hiding and missing Sean Lemass.
                Regretfully I am wrong about Irish Ferries ( rump of ISL and B&I ) they have flagged out all of their vessels to Cyprus, mainly, and mostly foreign crew their vessels.

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                • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                  Regretfully I am wrong about Irish Ferries ( rump of ISL and B&I ) they have flagged out all of their vessels to Cyprus, mainly, and mostly foreign crew their vessels.
                  To maintain our need for goods and services there were almost 13,000 movements of Marine traffic in Irish Ports in 2017. If we strip out tiddlers there were about 9000 medium to large ship movements or roughly 30 ships per day every day. Irish Shipping is now gone 30 years and Irish Flagged ships are scarce. It seems we are not providing any of the means to maintain our trade. The Irish Marine Development Office seems to be a collector of Statistics with little development of a Merchant Fleet potential.
                  With no home based Merchant fleet the politicians are trying to build one ( Merchant Shipping Act 2014 ) by encouraging others to flag in, like they do in mini countries like Malta, Cyprus, Marshall Islands, Panama, Liberia.
                  As a matter of Interest Cork handled 18m tonnes of shipped goods in 2017, and has a repair facility up to 20,000t +/-. Dublin handled 175m tonnes and has shut down their repair facility. In the 13,000 ship movements nationally about 4000+ were ships with dimensions beyond any drydock facility in Ireland. In 1984 we could tick most of the boxes on ships and ship repairs , now we are utterly dependent on uncontrollable entities.
                  Last edited by ancientmariner; 24 August 2019, 10:20.

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                  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    As a matter of Interest Cork handled 18m tonnes of shipped goods in 2017, and has a repair facility up to 20,000t +/-. Dublin handled 175m tonnes and has shut down their repair facility. In the 13,000 ship movements nationally about 4000+ were ships with dimensions beyond any drydock facility in Ireland. In 1984 we could tick most of the boxes on ships and ship repairs , now we are utterly dependent on uncontrollable entities.
                    It is my opinion that the development of Cork Lower Harbour ( Ringaskiddy Bay ) is going to lead to major congestion, especially when all the coastal aspects and container handling facilities are added in to the same area. It is obvious a new port should have been planned to prevent a choke point occurring between White Point and the Naval base. In Ringaskiddy Bay all ships will be maneuvering in the same basin area requiring a hierarchy or Rota for permission to depart or arrive. The same general area is also used for shipping to and from Cork Drydocks.

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                    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                      It is my opinion that the development of Cork Lower Harbour ( Ringaskiddy Bay ) is going to lead to major congestion, especially when all the coastal aspects and container handling facilities are added in to the same area. It is obvious a new port should have been planned to prevent a choke point occurring between White Point and the Naval base. In Ringaskiddy Bay all ships will be maneuvering in the same basin area requiring a hierarchy or Rota for permission to depart or arrive. The same general area is also used for shipping to and from Cork Drydocks.
                      In today's Irish Examiner we are told of a major project to develop Bantry Port as a Maritime Leisure Centre. All of our major ports have discarded the real purpose of their existence to exploit hospitality and accommodation markets. There is not a mention of Drydock and ship repair facilities . Dunlaoghaire, as a port is now lost, with every type of traffic pushed into a static Dublin. Governments must insist that an island like ours can provide all necessary supports to ships and provide remedial aid to any ship requiring repairs or assistance.

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                      • I note that negotiations are in place to release Rosslare Harbour from UK ownership. Given that the state has managed to stop the train from going as far as the actual terminal in the ferry port, I don't hold out much hope of them encouraging expansion by whoever end up owning it.
                        Bantry was neglected for many years, but recently the new pier was completed and it was large enough to safely berth one of our P60 recently.
                        Still a long way from when a train used to terminate at the end of the north quays. Our government is sea blind. It only sees our waters as places of leisure pursuit, rather than a vital transport route, as important, if not more so, than any motorway.

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                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          I note that negotiations are in place to release Rosslare Harbour from UK ownership. Given that the state has managed to stop the train from going as far as the actual terminal in the ferry port, I don't hold out much hope of them encouraging expansion by whoever end up owning it.
                          Bantry was neglected for many years, but recently the new pier was completed and it was large enough to safely berth one of our P60 recently.
                          Still a long way from when a train used to terminate at the end of the north quays. Our government is sea blind. It only sees our waters as places of leisure pursuit, rather than a vital transport route, as important, if not more so, than any motorway.
                          Absolutely! well said.

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                          • As long as the Multinationals do the work providing the jobs. our 2nd rate chancers do not have to be intelligent or plan long term.
                            Being a Sliddery hoor will get them by.

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                            • https://forum.irishmilitaryonline.co...ght=Drydocking

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                              • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                                I think we look at it from the wrong perspective. While it has been proven that successive governments have been 'sea blind' since the inception of the state looking at alternatives should be focused on private investment . i.e where it becomes viable for private entities to own dry docking and berthage and for the state to lease them back at reasonable cost, therefore reducing the capital investment the state makes. Bantry as a Naval facility has always had merit but its isolation from the major road networks makes it unattractive as do several other west coast locations
                                The privatisation of key state facilities/provisions has led to a dilution of availability, often controlled by entities, outside the country, and with a different agenda. Strategic infrastructure needs to be in control of the State. Every Navy should, within it's own territory, have ports of refuge in order to create reserves and/or move assets. The rush to turn historic ports into Office, accommodation, and leisure hubs, without making adequate alternative provisions for marine traffic is an illustration of the Agenda pursued by others not properly controlled

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