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  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    I saw Johnny Ronan mentioned and stopped reading.


    Had a giggle when I thought of Mario Rosenstock's p1$$ take of said same...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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    • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
      Not a salt water head by any means, but isn't Foynes a deep water port? Mind you, a major upgrade of the N69 would be needed for access to/from Limerick and hence to the national roads network
      The difficulty with the Port of Foynes is it's distance from the sea. The approach to the Shannon Estruary can be a long climb from the Blaskets to the shelter of LOOP Head in westerly or northwesterly gales. That, added to the long passage to Foynes, coupled with the narrowing effect of BEAL BAR, and the very narrow approach south of FOYNES Island, makes the port less than Handy. The N69 is an asset but the port is small with one commercial quay AFAIK.

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      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
        Today Cork Port management have submitted a plan to Cork County Council and government for a spur road from Jack Lynch Tunnel to " Their " land at the Tivoli Terminal. It is to underpin their Plan to Develop Tivoli Terminal to Cork City quays with a variety of modern development buildings. A number of questions arises. Who will pay for the road. Who owns the land from Tivoli to Cork. Who sanctions the change of use of harbour lands. What is being done to replace the LOST quay space and its hinterland and storage, throughout City Quays.
        How much did the Port Authority pay for the land bank at Ringaskiddy. Were the DOD compensated for the loss of the land adjacent to Black Prince pier, where Ringaskiddy now stands. Who owns all of the Harbour lands still in control of Port Authority and does the STATE have any say in its good order and use. Finally who is to gain financially for the Tivoli Development and additionally the Marino Point terminal.
        In today's Irish Examiner the Chairman of Cork Port authority admits congestion at Ringaskiddy Port area and seeks development of berthage at both Marina Point and Cobh Town hall area for Cruise liners with up to 150 visits a year. The viability of such usage is questionable as Marina Point would then be Multiuse and subject to availability for a range of ship types. The Town hall Berth would be almost in the Streets and open to the harbour mouth, leaving it exposed to full southerly winds. Getting rid of upper port berthage has consequences and meeting user needs is fraught with sectoral interests overriding sustainable long terms needs. Making it up as you go along is not wise planning.

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        • I'd be willing to suggest they missed the boat, excuse the pun, with regard to cruise liners.
          That industry has become a victim of Covid 19 and will see no recovery in the short to medium term. Small ports that once welcomed the Cruise liner trade have recently turned their backs on it, realising it brought no benefit. Cobh is a prime example. A liner of 2000 plus guests disembarks those aboard to waiting coaches, to be brought to the checklist of tourist traps. Blarney, Cashel, Jameson Distillery, Ring of Kerry etc. Only a handful will spend time in Cobh.
          Venice, before the Pandemic, had decided it no longer wanted the Cruise liner trade, as their local infrastructure could not cope with a sudden influx of an extra 5000+ humans, and all that goes with it. Sorrento isn't far behind.
          Meanwhile those working aboard get pitiful wages, the liner companies making sure to hire them on local contracts, so they get paid as per their minimum wage at home, instead of the industry standard.(Most come from developing Central american or Aisian states). Passengers are encouraged by cruise companies to tip their housekeeping staff, so they won't have to pay them a proper wage. In common with many of those working aboard ship during the pandemic, many of the lowest paid workers were stranded aboard since the initial outbreak, as ports denied them permission to dock, and there were no flights to repatriate them.
          Ships less than 15 years old are already facing the breakers yard. Many others are mothballed, as their owners await signs of an end to the pandemic.
          Best hope for the liners in the short term is they be repurposed as quarantine hotels.
          But we won't see liners round these parts for some time. When they do, it will be the smaller excursion vessels that island hop around the European coast, who are actually worth more to the local economy per capita than the Super liners of 3000 passengers or more. These can happily berth at the city quays, for now at least, until some future developer turns them into floating pontoon boardwalks for where the drug addicts can congregate.
          For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            I'd be willing to suggest they missed the boat, excuse the pun, with regard to cruise liners.
            That industry has become a victim of Covid 19 and will see no recovery in the short to medium term. Small ports that once welcomed the Cruise liner trade have recently turned their backs on it, realising it brought no benefit. Cobh is a prime example. A liner of 2000 plus guests disembarks those aboard to waiting coaches, to be brought to the checklist of tourist traps. Blarney, Cashel, Jameson Distillery, Ring of Kerry etc. Only a handful will spend time in Cobh.
            Venice, before the Pandemic, had decided it no longer wanted the Cruise liner trade, as their local infrastructure could not cope with a sudden influx of an extra 5000+ humans, and all that goes with it. Sorrento isn't far behind.
            Meanwhile those working aboard get pitiful wages, the liner companies making sure to hire them on local contracts, so they get paid as per their minimum wage at home, instead of the industry standard.(Most come from developing Central american or Aisian states). Passengers are encouraged by cruise companies to tip their housekeeping staff, so they won't have to pay them a proper wage. In common with many of those working aboard ship during the pandemic, many of the lowest paid workers were stranded aboard since the initial outbreak, as ports denied them permission to dock, and there were no flights to repatriate them.
            Ships less than 15 years old are already facing the breakers yard. Many others are mothballed, as their owners await signs of an end to the pandemic.
            Best hope for the liners in the short term is they be repurposed as quarantine hotels.
            But we won't see liners round these parts for some time. When they do, it will be the smaller excursion vessels that island hop around the European coast, who are actually worth more to the local economy per capita than the Super liners of 3000 passengers or more. These can happily berth at the city quays, for now at least, until some future developer turns them into floating pontoon boardwalks for where the drug addicts can congregate.
            Yes the world cruise trade is in covid hibernation but the point is the development and cost of new Cork Harbour berthage to replace all previously available berthage including visiting Liners and Naval vessels of all types and sizes. Berths are required for multi-cargo coasters, car carriers, container vessels, bulk cargo vessels, ro-ro, Lo-Lo vessels, passenger trade, and general cruise and State visitors. Right now all the balls are in the air but nobody is clearly planning how they will land.

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            • Iarainn Rod Eireann have announced an increase of direct sailings to Europe to a schedule of 36 sailings per week or just over 5 per day. Sounds like 24 hour working and some queuing. I hope they have good VTS, pilotage, and management.

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              • Relocating Dublin Port would cost over €8bn, says company


                https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.iris...187%3fmode=amp

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                • There has been, additionally, a push from other interests to access all Port land Banks, including existing working facilities , in order to create commercial offices and upmarket accommodation. Major port requirements need to be met professionally without speculative commercial interests created from back benches or the other interests. Small ports like Galway are now more BIMINI than commercial ports with ships docking in Flatland. Congestion is a Planning/ Spatial Engineering problem. It used to be East Wall road out of the Docks. Perhaps revisit that route with a new road to the Clontarf Road and South via east link.

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                  • It may be that Brexit has saved Dublin port from needing to expand. Trade across the Irish Sea has slumped, or has moved to Belfast. Rosslare, Waterford and Cork now best placed to capitalise on the greater trade from Continental Europe to Ireland.
                    For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

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                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      It may be that Brexit has saved Dublin port from needing to expand. Trade across the Irish Sea has slumped, or has moved to Belfast. Rosslare, Waterford and Cork now best placed to capitalise on the greater trade from Continental Europe to Ireland.
                      There has been major congestion on LoLo traffic worldwide since January. In Dublin, that has meant rather than fully unloading inbound feeders and then loading the containers for the outbound leg they are unloading a stack and then loading an outbound stack... there physically isn’t the room on the quay.

                      it has meant in some cases it means that for Dublin area based companies they are having to use Cork (as they can’t get the container taken off in Dublin).

                      they really need:
                      (a) container depot on rail line outside the M50
                      (b) more cranes and staff in the depots
                      (c) cranes in the depots that can cope with higher winds to allow them to operate more

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                      • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                        There has been major congestion on LoLo traffic worldwide since January. In Dublin, that has meant rather than fully unloading inbound feeders and then loading the containers for the outbound leg they are unloading a stack and then loading an outbound stack... there physically isn’t the room on the quay.

                        it has meant in some cases it means that for Dublin area based companies they are having to use Cork (as they can’t get the container taken off in Dublin).

                        they really need:
                        (a) container depot on rail line outside the M50
                        (b) more cranes and staff in the depots
                        (c) cranes in the depots that can cope with higher winds to allow them to operate more
                        The latest PR from CHC is praising their world class new container berth at Ringaskiddy. It is 360m long and 13.5m depth. Doesn't come near facilities in Rotterdam where ocean container berths are more than 4 times as long, with 15.6 m depth. The port in Rotterdam includes 24/7 service with 9 pilot boats, 4 or more Graving docks, 5 floating docks, tugs everywhere. feeder services, and in-land service, Floating cranes on call. We nationally have one drydock, in Cork, and a few tugs. The only way we beat Rotterdam is that they are spending 26m to improve liquid handling and we spend 86m to berth one ship (300m type) at a time.

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                        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

                          The latest PR from CHC is praising their world class new container berth at Ringaskiddy. It is 360m long and 13.5m depth. Doesn't come near facilities in Rotterdam where ocean container berths are more than 4 times as long, with 15.6 m depth. The port in Rotterdam includes 24/7 service with 9 pilot boats, 4 or more Graving docks, 5 floating docks, tugs everywhere. feeder services, and in-land service, Floating cranes on call. We nationally have one drydock, in Cork, and a few tugs. The only way we beat Rotterdam is that they are spending 26m to improve liquid handling and we spend 86m to berth one ship (300m type) at a time.
                          We aren’t beating Rotterdam, we aren’t even in competition with Rotterdam, trying to compare it and Cork is like trying to compare Eithne to a CVN, entirely different animals. Rotterdam is one of if not the main port for Europe and a major transshipment point, Cork is and always will be a feeder port.

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                          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

                            We aren’t beating Rotterdam, we aren’t even in competition with Rotterdam, trying to compare it and Cork is like trying to compare Eithne to a CVN, entirely different animals. Rotterdam is one of if not the main port for Europe and a major transshipment point, Cork is and always will be a feeder port.
                            If we claim world class then which part of the world are we claiming parity with. Belfast is nearby and they have almost 5km of key walls with many in excess of 500m and at least one at 880m. We are claiming a 280,000 possible throughput of containers. If we allow for 5000 capacity container ships , we have to turn around 56 such ships per annum on a single berth of 360m. Belfast in 2019 handled about 130,000 containers. we propose to double that with one berth.

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                            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

                              The latest PR from CHC is praising their world class new container berth at Ringaskiddy. It is 360m long and 13.5m depth. Doesn't come near facilities in Rotterdam where ocean container berths are more than 4 times as long, with 15.6 m depth. The port in Rotterdam includes 24/7 service with 9 pilot boats, 4 or more Graving docks, 5 floating docks, tugs everywhere. feeder services, and in-land service, Floating cranes on call. We nationally have one drydock, in Cork, and a few tugs. The only way we beat Rotterdam is that they are spending 26m to improve liquid handling and we spend 86m to berth one ship (300m type) at a time.
                              I'm surprised a man of your experience would make this comparison. Rotterdam Port area covers an area of roughly 250Sq Km, equal to a quarter of the size the county of Louth, if you include Europoort & Botlek.
                              Rotterdam is a shipping hub for the majority of Continental Europe. It serves much further than the Netherlands. It is also a feeder to the inland waterways of Europe, which still operate as a means to carry cargo such as containers, petroleum product and bulk cargo. I once went upstream by ship from Rotterdam as far as Dusseldorf. That would be the equivalent of taking a ship from Cork to Athlone, but you are doing it at bicycle pace. (actually bicycles will frequently pass you on the shoreline as you get held up by slower water traffic.)
                              Rotterdam/Europort, on a daily basis handles numerous Suezmax containerships, at 15000 TEU plus each stop, unloads and loads about 3 at a time. Port of Cork only hope to handle about 500,000TEU per year in total. Thats just about 3 Suezmax a month, and nothing else.
                              The Port of Cork is the 2nd Deepwater port of a country of just over 4 million. The Port of Milford Haven has more refineries than Ireland has.
                              There is 30KM of busy riverside industry on the entrance to Rotterdam before you even reach Erasmus Bridge.
                              The new cranes in Ringaskiddy aren't even designed to handle the Post Panamax containerships. Instead they are designed to handle ships stacking boxes 16 wide, Double what is currently possible at Tivoli. The Independant spirit, currently our largest containership, stacks 13 wide, and the weekly Refrigerated container ships stack 12 wide. They rarely unload/load more than a hundred or more boxes at a time.
                              If I was to compare the Port of Cork (Not CHC since 1997) to any other European port in terms of size or ambition, I'd say we were closer to someplace like Roscoff, Bilbao or Civitavecchia, Rome's port.
                              Cork is well served with Tugs. There are enough for its needs, and with the onset of the offshore wind industry, and the decomissioning of the Kinsale Gas field, we have the advantage of numerous anchor handling tugs operating from the port for the next few years, should there be an incident. The current owners of the location wherin the drydock sits, have great plans to embrace the offshore wind industry, and we may yet see moves there that would be an advantage to all who use the port. We are also lucky to be located not far from the operators of many of the largest mobile cranes in Ireland.
                              There are 2 high speed all weather pilot boats, comparable to anything in use in Rotterdam by the Maas pilots, which is plenty given the geography of the tidal port. There is a third launch also available to return pilots to base from the city quays, when other means are not available.
                              The article in question
                              Multi-million Cork port project close to completion (irishexaminer.com)
                              For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

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                              • Don't need any lessons on Rotterdam as I did 4 return trips there On the MV Wicklow in 1992 with Containers. The thread is adequacy of Irish Ports and in particular Cork. The port is in transition and is repurposing City quay space for the lower harbour. Ports need to meet several factors with provisions for small medium and large ship types. They also need to cater for special traffic such as visiting State Ships and Liner trade. The Pool at Ringaskiddy caters for Bulk, passenger type vessels, car carriers, container ships, and miscellaneous traders. It's future expansion is not readily visible and it is on the wrong side of the Harbour with no rail links. There is very little repair support for 300m ships and the target of 280,000 boxes per annum is double the current throughput of Belfast. If we are relying on ships the size of Independent Pursuit it would take 70 such ships a year to meet Box targets.

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