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Adequacy of Irish Ports

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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Don't need any lessons on Rotterdam as I did 4 return trips there On the MV Wicklow in 1992 with Containers. The thread is adequacy of Irish Ports and in particular Cork. The port is in transition and is repurposing City quay space for the lower harbour. Ports need to meet several factors with provisions for small medium and large ship types. They also need to cater for special traffic such as visiting State Ships and Liner trade. The Pool at Ringaskiddy caters for Bulk, passenger type vessels, car carriers, container ships, and miscellaneous traders. It's future expansion is not readily visible and it is on the wrong side of the Harbour with no rail links. There is very little repair support for 300m ships and the target of 280,000 boxes per annum is double the current throughput of Belfast. If we are relying on ships the size of Independent Pursuit it would take 70 such ships a year to meet Box targets.
    Only 4? Rotterdam was my 2nd home when I was a cadet in 1990. The City was then a kip, but we were thankful to have the Seaman's Mission in Botlek.
    From my vantage point in my home office I can see most of the daily traffic to and from Tivoli. Currently the port of Cork sees container traffic going to both Tivoli and Ringaskiddy. Ringaskiddy had managed to work quite well handling the container traffic it has had for the last 10 years or so even without Purpose built STS cranes, instead handling them using a spreader on the standard dockside crane. Tivoli Can now manage 2 smaller feeder container ships at a time since the demise of the Lisheen terminal there. Tivoli was once fed by a rail line, but all the sidings to the quays were closed off long ago. I understand all Bulk cargo will soon move to the Belvelly terminal, formerly Marino Point. This is served by a rail line, unfortunately there is no freight rolling stock operated by the main rail operator. While it is noble to desire that a port would be served by Rail freight, when the government of the day does not see the need for it, and is still actively putting rail lines beyond use, by converting them into "greenways", and only focusing on light passenger rail, perhaps you can understand why Port of Cork did not see the need for a line.
    As I discussed here before, the rail line that went as far as the Ferry 30 years ago in Rosslare, now stops at the station outside the harbour gates, just 4 times a day (arr at 12.31,16.33, 19.41 and 20.42 on weekdays, 3 times on weekends.) As infrequent as to be useless when most ferries leave either in the early morning or early evening. Oh and the only way you can get a train from Rosslare to Cork is via Dublin (Change at Heuston, take Luas to Connolly). Oddly, If you wanted to take the train from Rosslare to Waterford, you would also go Via Dublin and change at Connolly for Houston, a journey of just 72km by road thanks to the New Ross bypass.
    Should miracles happen though, the port is not far from the route of the old Passage-Monkstown line. Should that line ever reopen, I'm sure a siding can be arranged to serve the deepwater port. For now though the priority is the motorway, and work on that will commence once the Dunkettle interchange is complete.
    At present there are a number of Container lines serving Tivoli.
    Eucon on Sunday. Antwerp-Cork-Dublin (974TEU)
    BG Freight on Tuesday. Cork-Rotterdam-Cork (1000 TEU)
    X-Press lines Thursday. Rotterdam-Cork (900TEU)
    BG Freight again on Friday. Cork-Rotterdam-Dublin (803TEU)
    Samskip Saturday. Rotterdam-Waterford-Cork (803TEU)
    The Move to Ringaskiddy will permit them to use their larger vessels, while still leaving slots for the Independant line and the Maersk Reefer on the STS berth. Meanwhile RORO and larger bulk handling can continue on the enlarged quay opposite. I don't know where the LPG ships are going to go now, but I suppose with the current Greens in government we will soon no longer need LPG to heat our homes.
    In the Port of Cork master plan they expressed an intent in future to expand to the waterfront on the northern side of the new berth. Dredging may be required, but they already removed much of the rocky seabed in the Ringaskiddy pool to accomodate the new facility. The only barrier may be uncooperative local lobby groups who don't see the need for ships to deliver their cargo outside of daylight hours.
    Here is a nice video of the STS cranes being moved into position. You'll also note a quite impressive bank of power supply for the storage of reefer containers. That's far in excess of the current requirement.
    For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

    Comment


    • One more issue with the rail line to Marino Point, the current “plan” is for that entire line to be electrified to Cobh and I’d guess that will be overhead lines rather than on the rail so I can’t see CIE being interested in regenerating bulk cargo on the line anyway. Not with the planned growth in Cobh and Middleton to increase demand on the line if the greens have their way.

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      • Ringaskiddy Port Redevelopment is at the moment in transition between Proposed terminal layout and Permitted development layout. It is in partial flux and variable handling proposals between Straddle Carriers and required straddle Lanes, and some Rail Mounted Gantry Cranes. The final lengths are to be 361.1 metres for two feeder ships and a NE extension on the northern end of the latter of another 200metres, all with 13m alongside. The costs are augmented by major work on N28 to the North and elsewhere.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          Ringaskiddy Port Redevelopment is at the moment in transition between Proposed terminal layout and Permitted development layout. It is in partial flux and variable handling proposals between Straddle Carriers and required straddle Lanes, and some Rail Mounted Gantry Cranes. The final lengths are to be 361.1 metres for two feeder ships and a NE extension on the northern end of the latter of another 200metres, all with 13m alongside. The costs are augmented by major work on N28 to the North and elsewhere.
          The upgrades to the N28 are needed (and should have been done long ago) even without the port upgrade, not sure the point of that. Besides use Marino Point more and you need to do the upgrade to the Fota Road anyway as well, so there’s infrastructure costs no matter what.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
            One more issue with the rail line to Marino Point, the current “plan” is for that entire line to be electrified to Cobh and I’d guess that will be overhead lines rather than on the rail so I can’t see CIE being interested in regenerating bulk cargo on the line anyway. Not with the planned growth in Cobh and Middleton to increase demand on the line if the greens have their way.
            I do wonder about Irish Rails attitude. Back when there was lobbing for the western rail corridor by local politicians, I always thought Irish Rail should have planned to upgrade the lines from Waterford to Claremorris to use it for both Freight and Passenger, (surly they would have made the line pay with both freight and passenger?) instead they were dragged by the heals, did the bear minimum as far as Athenry and at the same time ran a Freight Train from Waterford to Ballina via Kildare.
            It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
            It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
            It was a new age...It was the end of history.
            It was the year everything changed.

            Comment


            • The crucial matter of N28 is that certain intended developments at the Ringaskiddy port area are dependent on completion of N28 improvements which implies they are interdependent. Overall between road, air, rail and sea there is little co-ordination because the various CEO's see the other as a competitor in moving things. a Ministry of Transport would be apt to give leadership.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                Overall between road, air, rail and sea there is little co-ordination because the various CEO's see the other as a competitor in moving things. a Ministry of Transport would be apt to give leadership.
                Or a Intergrated Transport Policy supremo. I'm sure I've seen it done somewhere before, sure what could go wrong!

                https://youtu.be/TDsSMi4zclo
                https://youtu.be/on2I1U-F3BY
                It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                It was the year everything changed.

                Comment


                • The Jonny Roman backed plan for a new port at Bremore is reportedly interested in acquiring both the Army camp and Airstrip at Gormanston as well, be interesting to see if the Government would sell it?
                  https://www.independent.ie/business/...-40795512.html

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                    The Jonny Roman backed plan for a new port at Bremore is reportedly interested in acquiring both the Army camp and Airstrip at Gormanston as well, be interesting to see if the Government would sell it?
                    https://www.independent.ie/business/...-40795512.html
                    I’m sure Johnny isn’t also interested in the current Dublin Port (for development) at all of course!

                    I’d assume the plans are for LoLo as opposed to RoRo (or maybe both) unless it has significantly more capacity than Dublin it is pointless.

                    yet again this week some terminals in Dublin are refusing entry of laden dry export containers…. There is insufficient feeder capacity, insufficient ocean vessel capacity, major congestion in ports worldwide and ocean lines are reporting higher profits than FY19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                      The Jonny Roman backed plan for a new port at Bremore is reportedly interested in acquiring both the Army camp and Airstrip at Gormanston as well, be interesting to see if the Government would sell it?
                      https://www.independent.ie/business/...-40795512.html
                      The Government should oversee all routes and accesses in and out of the country. At this time some harbours are breaking down into partial private ownership and divestment for immense profit. All the worthwhile land in west lower harbour Cork was Defence land. Governments of late are allowing vested interests take the initiative and no doubt Bremore will have an exclusive tag for approved trade only. Every port and harbour should have at least 250 metres of serviced quay space for State ships and average sized visiting Naval vessels, on courtesy calls or stress of weather. Bremore should be required to provide a naval berth as part of any deal for Defence land.

                      Comment


                      • Surely the window for a new port on the East Coast has closed with Brexit, and the majority of our freight no longer coming from or going to the UK?
                        For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          Surely the window for a new port on the East Coast has closed with Brexit, and the majority of our freight no longer coming from or going to the UK?
                          Look at the amount of manufacturing in the greater Dublin area and the amount of imports that consumed in that area

                          of course, a LoLo port on the West coast could have merit, if sufficient demand (also bearing in mind the road infrastructure between Sligo and Limerick)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                            Surely the window for a new port on the East Coast has closed with Brexit, and the majority of our freight no longer coming from or going to the UK?
                            There’s been some like David McWilliams that have been pushing it for a while, seeing it as both building a new trade axis between Belfast and Dublin while also massively solving the housing crisis in Dublin by converting the entire land bank of the port into housing.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

                              There’s been some like David McWilliams that have been pushing it for a while, seeing it as both building a new trade axis between Belfast and Dublin while also massively solving the housing crisis in Dublin by converting the entire land bank of the port into housing.
                              No wonder Johnny ronan has a hand in it so. Not a question of getting a new port in as getting the old port out. I presume they'll leave some Quay space on the north wall for the almost extinct cruise liner visits.
                              For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                                Look at the amount of manufacturing in the greater Dublin area and the amount of imports that consumed in that area

                                of course, a LoLo port on the West coast could have merit, if sufficient demand (also bearing in mind the road infrastructure between Sligo and Limerick)
                                3 hours by motorway to Rosslare, Waterford or Cork.
                                the days of clustering manufacturing around a port area is gone, with the improvements in the motorway network.
                                Otherwise Leibherr would never have built their STS crane facility in Killarney.
                                For now, everything hangs on the CoDF report, still possibly 2 weeks from the Ministers desk.

                                Comment

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