Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OPV Replacement

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Its a similar discussion to the armoured debate.
    Why put a bigger gun on a wheeled AFV? It's designed to kill tanks, meaning it will come into contact with thanks, who are much better armoured. You end up getting into scraps you can't get out of.
    If we want an OPV with armament similar to a frigate, maybe we are better off just getting a frigate?
    The Holland class is designed specifically with operating in the Dutch protectorates(anti Smuggling operations in the Caribbean), as a standalone unit. Their I-Mast cost as much as the ships themselves.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      The Holland class is designed specifically with operating in the Dutch protectorates(anti Smuggling operations in the Caribbean), as a standalone unit. Their I-Mast cost as much as the ships themselves.
      The Holland class have as one of their operational area that of the Dutch Caribbean but it is not their own AoA. They were designed to allow the replacement of 4 M-class frigates with a more patrol dedicated vessels. It was also seen as a means to support the local naval industry and display the capabilities they had. Only one ship is normally forward deployed to the Caribbean but as with the whole Dutch Navy the area is a regular training ground especially during the winter months.

      As for costs each vessel did cost only €60m to build the remaining €57m per vessels did not only include the iMast.

      In that €57m was the iMast, the CMS, all the GFE such as the weapons as well as part of the development, trials and training costs. The primary reason why the basic ship cost only €60m was due to the low design speed of 21.5kn which meant that the cost of the powerplant is greatly reduced. If the desired speed was higher like the 28kn needed for a frigate then the plant cost would be several time higher.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
        The weakest part of builders proposals is actually putting ship's craft into the sea. Boats are deployed to put boarding groups either ashore or onto other craft . The tricky bit is releasing the boat cleanly with all parties already on board. The loading ledge on the port quarter would not work in an open sea. It would either push a lipped boat underwater or flip it over from underneath during a roll. Recovering craft requires the reverse sequence. Another matter I picked up in comments, is it true that the OTO76 is not designed for NGS?
        It started life as an AA gun - as did anything below 149mm. But you can get Volcano for it, so these days defo capable of NGS.

        Comment


        • Saw this earlier and it reminded me of the original promotional sketches of what the P30 was going to look like before the design was expanded from wind tunnel and tank testing. I wonder if Ancientmariner remembers these early designs?

          https://vardmarine.com/wp-content/up...nfographic.pdf


          followed by this, which looks like what P31 could have become...
          https://youtu.be/P6WqZiWwzD4

          Even has a dauphin on deck.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by na grohmiti; 22 November 2020, 14:56.
          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
          German 2: Private? I am a general!
          German 1: That is the bad news.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            Saw this earlier and it reminded me of the original promotional sketches of what the P30 was going to look like before the design was expanded from wind tunnel and tank testing. I wonder if Ancientmariner remembers these early designs?

            https://vardmarine.com/wp-content/up...nfographic.pdf


            followed by this, which looks like what P31 could have become...
            https://youtu.be/P6WqZiWwzD4

            Even has a dauphin on deck.
            As said before only major issue with the VARD7-078 is the hangar needs to be doubled in length even to get the Dauphin into it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
              As said before only major issue with the VARD7-078 is the hangar needs to be doubled in length even to get the Dauphin into it.
              Telescopic hangars have been seen on many naval vessels over the years. It gets the aircraft out of the weather, and chance of damage.The Knox class frigate, which operated Kayman Seasprites, or AB212 Helis had such a system.
              German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
              German 2: Private? I am a general!
              German 1: That is the bad news.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                Telescopic hangars have been seen on many naval vessels over the years. It gets the aircraft out of the weather, and chance of damage.The Knox class frigate, which operated Kayman Seasprites, or AB212 Helis had such a system.
                Telescopic hangars are pertinent for small ships to allow the hangar to be deployed around the decked aircraft. The preceding Vard drawings are similar in outline to what P31 could have become with the extended F.dk( Vard7-078). The drawing without a hangar looks more like a Roisin type vessel with a flight deck. In any event, with the addition of any flight deck, ships will have to include ,for their taskings, equipment and personnel for the direction, control, landing, and fuelling Helos. Consideration needs to be given to occasions when the aircraft is unable to safely depart.

                Comment


                • Do you remember the original renderings of the HPV, they would have appeared on recruiting leaflets in the early 80s. They looked a lot like the first ship. Basically what you would have got if you put a helideck on a stretched Emer type.
                  German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                  German 2: Private? I am a general!
                  German 1: That is the bad news.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                    Do you remember the original renderings of the HPV, they would have appeared on recruiting leaflets in the early 80s. They looked a lot like the first ship. Basically what you would have got if you put a helideck on a stretched Emer type.
                    I'm a doubting Thomas on this one. The RFP for P31 was always to include facilities at HOSTAC Level 1 for Helo operations. I don't recall drawings with or without, or giving choices. Ship was always to have hangar, horizon bar, winching system, landing grid, workshop, fuelling deck and HIFR, XY crane for Engine and rotor repairs, on deck starting system etc. The uncertain helo. quickly became Dauphin.

                    Comment


                    • I assume the telescopic hangers don’t have the same maintenance facilities as a conventional hanger?

                      Eg gantry crane for engine changes

                      Comment


                      • Some wouldn't even have that. Its a shelter, no more.
                        German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                        German 2: Private? I am a general!
                        German 1: That is the bad news.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                          I'm a doubting Thomas on this one. The RFP for P31 was always to include facilities at HOSTAC Level 1 for Helo operations. I don't recall drawings with or without, or giving choices. Ship was always to have hangar, horizon bar, winching system, landing grid, workshop, fuelling deck and HIFR, XY crane for Engine and rotor repairs, on deck starting system etc. The uncertain helo. quickly became Dauphin.
                          If only I wasn't about 9 or 10 when I saw it.
                          There wasn't much information given. It was longer than p20s, had hangar but single funnel amidships, same type as on P20s, and not the twin slim funnels we ended up with.
                          Promotional literature of this nature was scarce back then.
                          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                          German 2: Private? I am a general!
                          German 1: That is the bad news.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                            Telescopic hangars have been seen on many naval vessels over the years. It gets the aircraft out of the weather, and chance of damage.The Knox class frigate, which operated Kayman Seasprites, or AB212 Helis had such a system.
                            The Knox class and the two preceding classes of DE's were design to carry the DASH drone and not originally the Seasprites which came only were the DASH drone was cancelled. Interesting is the VARD 7-078 has two hangars, one large for a helicopter and a smaller one under the over-sized control room. IMHO it would be better for them to have a full width structure and a hangar to take and maintain both a helicopter and a drone.

                            Also it is interesting that the first on the list of missions it is designed for is "diving operations and mine countermeasures"

                            Comment


                            • Seems the P60's cooling system and pumping systems are getting an upgrade it seems, for 500K:
                              https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/n...ign=news_promo

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                                Seems the P60's cooling system and pumping systems are getting an upgrade it seems, for 500K:
                                https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/n...ign=news_promo
                                Could be the consequence of International agreements towards reducing emissions, conserving fuel, and reducing carbon footprint. Our ships from over there tend to be quite smoky. Changes could include a variable speed pumping system. The new IMO requirements will effect most shipping and a whole new chapter to Marine repair/upgrade Industry.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X