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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post

    1.5 crews per ship..... like the NS is supposed to have (pre last reorg anyways)
    Yes for the Three watch system BUT eight weeks on and 4 weeks off needs a further basket of bodies. When we drew up CS4 submissions for the p20/p23 series , we proposed 3 crews for each ship, which later evolved as two crews per ship. When it was pushed down to 1.5 it laid the foundation for external and internal strife. DFR gurus should study manning systems of other navies. We used to have access to QRAAI's. We had copies in the BNO library.

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  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

    Interestingly the addition of the Newest batch of OPV's to the RN have not been without difficulty. The first ship of the series needed much reconstructive work due to shortcomings at BAE. The latest ship HMS Spey has now joined for Training and has some interesting statistics. 50 man crew with 13 officers ( 3 OUT),One third crew NCO's many techs, another cohort on board are on their first ship. High tech spec in radars and FCS including optical, 16 tonne crane. They have a Three Watch system, two watches on board, one Watch on shore for training, and leave. The plum feature is that for 8 weeks on board, there is 4 weeks ashore also. I'd love to know how that work in Falklands or the Caribbean.
    1.5 crews per ship..... like the NS is supposed to have (pre last reorg anyways)

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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

    Could be the consequence of International agreements towards reducing emissions, conserving fuel, and reducing carbon footprint. Our ships from over there tend to be quite smoky. Changes could include a variable speed pumping system. The new IMO requirements will effect most shipping and a whole new chapter to Marine repair/upgrade Industry.
    Interestingly the addition of the Newest batch of OPV's to the RN have not been without difficulty. The first ship of the series needed much reconstructive work due to shortcomings at BAE. The latest ship HMS Spey has now joined for Training and has some interesting statistics. 50 man crew with 13 officers ( 3 OUT),One third crew NCO's many techs, another cohort on board are on their first ship. High tech spec in radars and FCS including optical, 16 tonne crane. They have a Three Watch system, two watches on board, one Watch on shore for training, and leave. The plum feature is that for 8 weeks on board, there is 4 weeks ashore also. I'd love to know how that work in Falklands or the Caribbean.

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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Seems the P60's cooling system and pumping systems are getting an upgrade it seems, for 500K:
    https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/n...ign=news_promo
    Could be the consequence of International agreements towards reducing emissions, conserving fuel, and reducing carbon footprint. Our ships from over there tend to be quite smoky. Changes could include a variable speed pumping system. The new IMO requirements will effect most shipping and a whole new chapter to Marine repair/upgrade Industry.

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  • Sparky42
    replied
    Seems the P60's cooling system and pumping systems are getting an upgrade it seems, for 500K:
    https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/n...ign=news_promo

    Leave a comment:


  • EUFighter
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Telescopic hangars have been seen on many naval vessels over the years. It gets the aircraft out of the weather, and chance of damage.The Knox class frigate, which operated Kayman Seasprites, or AB212 Helis had such a system.
    The Knox class and the two preceding classes of DE's were design to carry the DASH drone and not originally the Seasprites which came only were the DASH drone was cancelled. Interesting is the VARD 7-078 has two hangars, one large for a helicopter and a smaller one under the over-sized control room. IMHO it would be better for them to have a full width structure and a hangar to take and maintain both a helicopter and a drone.

    Also it is interesting that the first on the list of missions it is designed for is "diving operations and mine countermeasures"

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  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    I'm a doubting Thomas on this one. The RFP for P31 was always to include facilities at HOSTAC Level 1 for Helo operations. I don't recall drawings with or without, or giving choices. Ship was always to have hangar, horizon bar, winching system, landing grid, workshop, fuelling deck and HIFR, XY crane for Engine and rotor repairs, on deck starting system etc. The uncertain helo. quickly became Dauphin.
    If only I wasn't about 9 or 10 when I saw it.
    There wasn't much information given. It was longer than p20s, had hangar but single funnel amidships, same type as on P20s, and not the twin slim funnels we ended up with.
    Promotional literature of this nature was scarce back then.

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  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Some wouldn't even have that. Its a shelter, no more.

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  • DeV
    replied
    I assume the telescopic hangers don’t have the same maintenance facilities as a conventional hanger?

    Eg gantry crane for engine changes

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  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Do you remember the original renderings of the HPV, they would have appeared on recruiting leaflets in the early 80s. They looked a lot like the first ship. Basically what you would have got if you put a helideck on a stretched Emer type.
    I'm a doubting Thomas on this one. The RFP for P31 was always to include facilities at HOSTAC Level 1 for Helo operations. I don't recall drawings with or without, or giving choices. Ship was always to have hangar, horizon bar, winching system, landing grid, workshop, fuelling deck and HIFR, XY crane for Engine and rotor repairs, on deck starting system etc. The uncertain helo. quickly became Dauphin.

    Leave a comment:


  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Do you remember the original renderings of the HPV, they would have appeared on recruiting leaflets in the early 80s. They looked a lot like the first ship. Basically what you would have got if you put a helideck on a stretched Emer type.

    Leave a comment:


  • ancientmariner
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Telescopic hangars have been seen on many naval vessels over the years. It gets the aircraft out of the weather, and chance of damage.The Knox class frigate, which operated Kayman Seasprites, or AB212 Helis had such a system.
    Telescopic hangars are pertinent for small ships to allow the hangar to be deployed around the decked aircraft. The preceding Vard drawings are similar in outline to what P31 could have become with the extended F.dk( Vard7-078). The drawing without a hangar looks more like a Roisin type vessel with a flight deck. In any event, with the addition of any flight deck, ships will have to include ,for their taskings, equipment and personnel for the direction, control, landing, and fuelling Helos. Consideration needs to be given to occasions when the aircraft is unable to safely depart.

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  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    As said before only major issue with the VARD7-078 is the hangar needs to be doubled in length even to get the Dauphin into it.
    Telescopic hangars have been seen on many naval vessels over the years. It gets the aircraft out of the weather, and chance of damage.The Knox class frigate, which operated Kayman Seasprites, or AB212 Helis had such a system.

    Leave a comment:


  • EUFighter
    replied
    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Saw this earlier and it reminded me of the original promotional sketches of what the P30 was going to look like before the design was expanded from wind tunnel and tank testing. I wonder if Ancientmariner remembers these early designs?

    https://vardmarine.com/wp-content/up...nfographic.pdf


    followed by this, which looks like what P31 could have become...
    https://youtu.be/P6WqZiWwzD4

    Even has a dauphin on deck.
    As said before only major issue with the VARD7-078 is the hangar needs to be doubled in length even to get the Dauphin into it.

    Leave a comment:


  • na grohmiti
    replied
    Saw this earlier and it reminded me of the original promotional sketches of what the P30 was going to look like before the design was expanded from wind tunnel and tank testing. I wonder if Ancientmariner remembers these early designs?

    https://vardmarine.com/wp-content/up...nfographic.pdf


    followed by this, which looks like what P31 could have become...
    https://youtu.be/P6WqZiWwzD4

    Even has a dauphin on deck.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by na grohmiti; 22 November 2020, 14:56.

    Leave a comment:

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