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  • #31
    Originally posted by carrington View Post
    The British bought equipment especially for Iraq and/or Afghanistan on the basis of 'Urgent Operational Requirements', thus bypassing the long delays involved in the normal military equipment purchasing process. Any reason why the DF could not do likewise?

    The British also bought Merlin helicopters directly from the Royal Danish Air Force, so as not to have to wait for new machines to be built. Again, another possible way of getting necessary equipment in a hurry.
    Because the Brits required them for a War.

    The Govt even mentions the words UOR and the crusties will be all over it. As a result, Irish troops may suffer from a lack of needed armour because the Govt doesn't want to be seen to be sending the Army into a place where people might shoot at them. Honestly, there is no trouble in Chad

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Docman View Post
      Because the Brits required them for a War.

      The Govt even mentions the words UOR and the crusties will be all over it. As a result, Irish troops may suffer from a lack of needed armour because the Govt doesn't want to be seen to be sending the Army into a place where people might shoot at them. Honestly, there is no trouble in Chad
      I think the reach of the crustie is overrated in certain situations. If the troops aren't going to have the equipment they need, I think the real reason will be down to the tightness of the DoF and that tightness is not directly or indirectly influenced by the threat of people lying down in front of Mowags.

      I do hope if the troops aren't going to have the equipment they need - that the top brass in the Defence Forces take it on the chin and withdraw/scale back their commitment. Sure it will cause a loss of face, but not for the Army - for the guys saying they can't commit the money needed.

      It'd be better than losing soldiers because they weren't in a mine protected vehicle.

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      • #33
        Sadly I fear it will take tricolour draped coffins arriving back from Chad before the DF get the armoured vehicles they need.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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        • #34
          I hate to say it, but I agree with you Goldie
          What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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          • #35
            Wonder what Kevin Myers would say about this in his column, if he were to hear about it.....

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            • #36
              in the AO where the irish will be based the mine threat is given as low.

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              • #37
                Hi there
                that doesn't mean the oppo couldnt go around planting a few, nailing either refugees or Foreign forces, be they French-controlled or European.Think how quickly every thing slows down with just even the threat of mines.I hope they have decent heli assets out there, given the size of the place.
                regards
                GttC

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                • #38
                  To have an effective minefield, all you need is one mine.
                  The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.
                  (George Bernard Shaw, Playwright, 1856 - 1950)

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by WES View Post
                    To have an effective minefield, all you need is one mine.
                    Or even just a sign saying 'Danger - Mines'....

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                    • #40
                      To have an effective minefield, all you need is one mine
                      that may be the case if your a dealing with few backward locals. (that are afraid of bit of whit mam magic) and refuse to work the land, and remain under the control of the local mucktar. (beacuse they depend on him for food etc)

                      where one mine is in palce the threat assessment would be low, troops would be trained in mine warfare and the job would still get done. there were mines in th leb, kosovo, bosnia and in liberia too. you have to just deal with situation.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                        that may be the case if your a dealing with few backward locals. (that are afraid of bit of whit mam magic) and refuse to work the land, and remain under the control of the local mucktar. (beacuse they depend on him for food etc).
                        You miss my point. If an individual stands on a mine, even though it is the only mine for a thousand miles, then the whole section, platoon, battalion etc goes to ground because you have to immediately assume that your unit has walked into a minefield. You now have an effective minefield because the advance has been halted and the engineers have to be called in to clear a path through the "minefield", which takes time. A path is cleared and taped off and the ground on either side of you is assumed to be mined and is therefore denied to you. Now do you understand? The purpose of a minefield is to cause maximum disruption with minimum effort.

                        Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                        where one mine is in palce the threat assessment would be low, troops would be trained in mine warfare and the job would still get done. there were mines in th leb, kosovo, bosnia and in liberia too. you have to just deal with situation.
                        So how is it determined that only one mine is in place? What survey is done to come to a conclusion like that? Get a grip. Incidentally the safest position I ever served on was Post 650, which was located about twenty metres north of the Good Fence. It was built in the middle of an Israeli minefield so we were protected by mines on three sides. Very good of them to do that for us. So please don't BS me about mines, what countries they may be deployed in or how they are dealt with.

                        Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                        that may be the case if your a dealing with few backward locals.
                        Just because they may be poor, underprivelieged, and were born in houses with no running water, don't ever make the assumption that anyone is "backward". That was the rock that many an individual perished on. I also find that remark demeaning.

                        Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                        that are afraid of bit of whit mam magic.
                        I am of the opinion that this is a racist remark.

                        Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                        remain under the control of the local mucktar. (beacuse they depend on him for food etc).
                        ???????????????
                        Last edited by WES; 10 November 2007, 21:47.
                        The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.
                        (George Bernard Shaw, Playwright, 1856 - 1950)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                          there were mines in th leb, kosovo, bosnia and in liberia too. you have to just deal with situation.
                          We did.
                          sigpic
                          Say NO to violence against Women

                          Originally posted by hedgehog
                          My favourite moment was when the
                          Originally posted by hedgehog
                          red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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                          • #43
                            where to start ?

                            one mine is a low threat. how can we determine the threat level look at the actions in the past conflict, intel and tactics used by opposing force. ok if there was a mine strike i take it that holds up a batt as described in your remark. firstly they (i.e batt) would extract themselves first or the engineers would provide this service. funnly enough there are ways of determining the depth and width of a mine field or in other words if it is phoney mine field . once these checks have been carried out the unit would proceed with the mission. i would like to see the batt comdr (section comdr) telling the mission comdr (coy comdr) sorry sir i cant go south of ??? for a thousand miles because we have one mine strike or there is a possibility of mines. the job gets done and moreover if the threat is low the job gets done. just like it did in the leb, only there was tactical and protective mine fields which had to be either breech (worst case) or bypassed which did soak up resources. i am sure you saw the engineers from hill 650 (break) dealing with such problems.

                            i think you would have not felt so safe in hill 650 (break) if there was one mine. it would not have stopped either party in the leb.

                            as for the racist remark. that is the exact way in which mines were used in Africa where one mine was planted in a field and the locals were denied the land and thus depending on the local milta leader. sorry if i offended you, i guess you were nt a racist when you during groundhog. i am one of those uneducated i speak of or i would know better

                            look what i was saying one mine/mine strike cannot be allowed or has not in the past stopped us overseas.

                            thank you for insightful comments on mine warfare backed up by your experience. these would make up a good paper on such a subject with the possible title "one mine the way to stop a modern army"

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              if there was a mine strike i take it that holds up a batt as described in your remark.
                              The mine has therefore served its purpose. Maximum disruption with minimum effort.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              firstly they (i.e batt) would extract themselves first or the
                              engineers would provide this service. funnly enough there are ways of determining the depth and width of a mine field or in other words if it is phoney mine field.
                              Funnily enough all this takes time.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              once these checks have been carried out the unit would proceed with the mission. i would like to see the batt comdr (section comdr) telling the mission comdr (coy comdr) sorry sir i cant go south of ??? for a thousand miles because we have one mine strike or there is a possibility of mines. the job gets done and moreover if the threat is low the job gets done.
                              Never have I said in any of my posts that the job would not get done.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              just like it did in the leb
                              And other places.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              only there was tactical and protective mine fields which had to be either breech (worst case) or bypassed which did soak up resources.
                              Not only wasting time but now soaking up resources as well. Imagine.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              i am sure you saw the engineers from hill 650(break)
                              There is no such place as Hill 650. I said Post 650.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              i think you would have not felt so safe in hill 650(break)
                              Yes I would.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              hill 650(break))"
                              The majority of people who post on the board lend credibility to their statements by:

                              1. Citing documentary evidence.

                              2. Relating their experiences in terms of what is being discussed.

                              Accusing me of throwing breaks not once but twice merely shows that this concept is beyond you.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              if there was one mine. it would not have stopped either party in the leb.
                              ????????????

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              as for the racist remark. that is the exact way in which mines were used in Africa where one mine was planted in a field and the locals were denied the land and thus depending on the local milta leader.
                              How is putting down mines being racist?

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              sorry if i offended you
                              You didn't offend me.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              i guess you were nt a racist when you during groundhog."
                              Don’t know what you are inferring.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              look what i was saying one mine/mine strike cannot be allowed or has not in the past stopped us overseas."
                              I never said it did.

                              Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                              thank you for insightful comments on mine warfare backed up by your experience. these would make up a good paper on such a subject with the possible title "one mine the way to stop a modern army"
                              It wouldn’t be the first paper I wrote and resorting to sarcasm only compounds the limitations of your argument.
                              The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.
                              (George Bernard Shaw, Playwright, 1856 - 1950)

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by holdfast View Post
                                i think you would have not felt so safe in hill 650 (break) if there was one mine. it would not have stopped either party in the leb.
                                Did you serve with UNIFIL?
                                sigpic
                                Say NO to violence against Women

                                Originally posted by hedgehog
                                My favourite moment was when the
                                Originally posted by hedgehog
                                red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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