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Irish Peacekeepers Video, Lebanon, Somalia, East Timor

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  • Irish Peacekeepers Video, Lebanon, Somalia, East Timor


  • #2
    I recognise the AMLs and SISUs in the footage but what are the APCs ? Are they still about or being used for target practice ?
    Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

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    • #3
      Panhard M3 APC.

      http://www.armouruk.net/pahnard.htm

      The APC's are no longer in service. Some were used as targets.

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      • #4
        B Inman is correct it was the Panhard M3VTT APC, the DF operated around 60 of them (around 12-16 were in service in Lebanon up until the early 90s.

        They were then replaced by UN owned (as opposed to UN leased (from the Irish Government (in the case of the Panhards)) SISUs. The DF bought 2 SISUs for training drivers. These 2 SISUs are still in service here (I think) and ours saw service in Somalia.

        The Panhard APCs are now targets. There may still be 2 outside the National Museum Collins Bks.
        Last edited by DeV; 12 December 2010, 17:55.

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        • #5
          There's one in the museum itself if I remember correctly.
          Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DeV View Post
            B Inman is correct it was the Panhard M3VTT APC, the DF operated around 60 of them (around 12-16 were in service in Lebanon up until the early 90s.

            They were then replaced by UN owned (as opposed to UN leased (from the Irish Government (in the case of the Panhards)) SISUs. The DF bought 2 SISUs for training drivers. These 2 SISUs are still in service here (I think) and ours saw service in Somalia.

            The Panhard APCs are now targets. There may still be 2 outside the National Museum Collins Bks.
            Off course B Inman is correct, he is ex PDF and has service in them in the Leb..

            There are two more in Cathal Brugha Bks.

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            • #7
              So in terms of numbers of AFVs , are there now more or less in the army ? If this breaches OPSEC then please ignore
              Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Captain Edmund Blackadder View Post
                There's one in the museum itself if I remember correctly.
                Theres one in Cork also, outside the barracks museum, and at least one WAS in private hands up to recently.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #9
                  There are quite a few around the country as gate Guardians, theres one fully functional in the Cavalry Collection in the Curragh, one in the Museum in Collins Bks and the rest were used as hard targets.

                  There is one held privately and one which was repossessed.

                  The compound in Coolmoney held most of the survivors up to 2005 but within a year they had all gone, there were some AML 60 HBs there also along with two Timoneys.

                  I photographed the lot in 2005 and published two articles on the subject at the time and the photos were in the gallery here for some time.

                  There were tow versions in service, the 4 cylinder panhard engined and the 6 cylinder peugeot engined the latter having been developed by Panhard with Irish input.These were the last to remain in service and were mostly. These would have served along side th Mowags for a while as a lot of the border roads were not suitable for Mowags. The last ones I saw in service were in Finner in about 2002 but didn't last much longer.

                  Little point of interest in that the turret fitted was unique to Ireland and they were scabbed on to the SISUs in Lebanon to afford protection to the commander in a SISU after the loss of a commander and a few near misses.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by knocker View Post
                    So in terms of numbers of AFVs , are there now more or less in the army ? If this breaches OPSEC then please ignore
                    Between the various model Panhards and the Mowags, its probably about the same, but quality and size has radically improved. Of course, the bulk of them fall under the category of APC, not AFV.
                    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

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                    • #11
                      Murph - I thought there were only 'turrets' used on the SISU in Irish service were the ones taken from the M3 VTT (2x7.62mm) when they were retired out of UNIFIL - but in that video the SISU at about 1.50 seems to have a higher narrower turret?

                      I know that they had .50 MGs in unprotected ring mounts in early service, with tragic consequences, but was told at the time that they were delivered with 12.7mm DShk which the DF removed. Is that true?

                      Actually, while we're on the subject, was one of the M3s hit by an RPG in the very late 1980s while on UNIFIL service? I seem to remember a mention in news reports from the time - think a soldier was decorated for bravery in rescuing a wounded comrade in the same incident?

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                      • #12
                        Murph - I thought there were only 'turrets' used on the SISU in Irish service were the ones taken from the M3 VTT (2x7.62mm) when they were retired out of UNIFIL - but in that video the SISU at about 1.50 seems to have a higher narrower turret?
                        You are indeed corect with the turret picture in the vid being a lsh up job to protect the gunner until the modification was made for the T2Li turret... guess what the i stands for.
                        Its was a local lash up to protect the funner but was impractical when we already had a source of turrets available.

                        I know that they had .50 MGs in unprotected ring mounts in early service, with tragic consequences, but was told at the time that they were delivered with 12.7mm DShk which the DF removed. Is that true?
                        .

                        .Again correct, the Turrets from the Timoneys would have been more suitable as they had a .5 mounted, but arguably the timoneys were still in servce.The Dshk were removed to facilitate training at home with the Manroy .5 HB HMG

                        Actually, while we're on the subject, was one of the M3s hit by an RPG in the very late 1980s while on UNIFIL service? I seem to remember a mention in news reports from the time - think a soldier was decorated for bravery in rescuing a wounded comrade in the same incident?
                        You refer I think to the Chap o the Courtneys but I can't be sure of the detail you mention although without a shadow of a doubt you hit an M3 with an RPG...its game over.. Again I took shots of one fired on by various weapons, proving even 7.62mm would penetrate the hull.

                        Small point worth noting that the VVT drive train and transmission difered only from the standard AML with the introduction of of a standard clutch as opposed to the ommission of a foot clutch on the AMLs,
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                        • #13
                          4.10-4.25 looks suspiciously like the interior of an Allouette.

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                          • #14
                            You refer I think to the Chap o the Courtneys but I can't be sure of the detail you mention although without a shadow of a doubt you hit an M3 with an RPG...its game over.. Again I took shots of one fired on by various weapons, proving even 7.62mm would penetrate the hull.
                            I can't remember the details of the incident, but I think there was an Irish soldier injured in some form of contact, and a colleague went and dragged him to safety under covering fire. It was reported in the press at the time, so would be public domain.

                            Estimating the effectiveness of armour that has been used for target practice is always difficult, because once the sheet has been hit once, it loses a lot of it's tensile strength (not to mention the fact that previous impacts will crack welds or deform plates). But with the M3, I'd well believe the fact that it was that vulnerable. Just knocking on it gives the impression that a particularly aggressive 9 year old with a screwdriver could penetrate it.

                            As an aside, would the turret from an AML20 fit on the SISU? Always struck me that it would be a cheap way of getting some extra armour in service if needed - pick up a load of used SISUs, overhaul them, and use whatever turrets are 'spare'. It'd be much less capable than the MOWAG, but a lot cheaper way of getting some armour around bodies.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aidan View Post

                              As an aside, would the turret from an AML20 fit on the SISU? Always struck me that it would be a cheap way of getting some extra armour in service if needed - pick up a load of used SISUs, overhaul them, and use whatever turrets are 'spare'. It'd be much less capable than the MOWAG, but a lot cheaper way of getting some armour around bodies.
                              The engine location on the SISU would rule that out.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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