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  • Training and Promotion

    I was looking at the R5 with regard to promotion.

    It clearly states that to go from recruit to cpl the prescribed syllibus of training must be followed and
    shall be qualified for promotion to Corporal or
    Leading Seaman as appropriate in their particular class when they fulfil the conditions laid down in the relevant Training Instructions issued
    further more it goes on to say

    Promotion above the rank of Sergeant or Petty Officer may be made by the General
    Officer Commanding the Brigade or the Flag Officer Commanding the Naval Service to fill
    vacancies in Establishments.
    Am I correct in reading this that there is no mandatory requirement to complete Std NCO, Senior NCO or Officer Crse in order to get promoted provided the vacancy exists?
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

  • #2
    Well thats the way it is in the PDF, but would a Infantry Cpl get a vacancy for Sgt in the Cavalry?

    Or would this vacancy only be eligible to people within the same Corp?
    I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by kermit
      Correct, except for the Officer course which you need to complete to be commissioned as a line officer. However, I believe such NCO positions have to be advertised within the Bde.
      27. (1) Except as provided in subparagraph (2)(b) hereof, only non-commissioned officers of
      the Reserve Defence Force shall be eligible for nomination to be appointed to be officers of the
      Reserve Defence Force for the purpose of assignment to the Reserve of Officers.

      A person (including a reservist) who is in possession of a university degree or
      diploma or an equivalent qualification, or who possesses other special
      qualifications of military value, may, subject to the existence of a vacancy in
      Establishments for which his particular qualifications are appropriate, be
      nominated to be appointed to be an officer of the Reserve Defence Force provided
      that they -
      (i) are not more than forty-five years of age on the date on which they are
      examined by the Interview Board referred to in subparagraph (iii) hereunder;
      (ii) have a medical classification not lower than - year of birth - 22 - 512 - as
      defined in Defence Force Regulations A.12 (Part VI), and
      (iii) is recommended by an Interview Board nominated by the Chief of Staff.
      Would a Degree in radio Communications, Electronics, Transporl Mgt of Logistics not be considered not only as degrees but also as qualifications of military value?
      And therefore bypass the O crse?

      Is there any chance someone could look up A12 and PM me with the "medical classification not lower than - year of birth - 22 - 512"?
      (YOB=65)
      luchi
      Cut backs
      Last edited by luchi; 8 October 2007, 12:33.
      Without supplies no army is brave.

      —Frederick the Great,

      Instructions to his Generals, 1747

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by luchi View Post
        Am I correct in reading this that there is no mandatory requirement to complete Std NCO, Senior NCO or Officer Crse in order to get promoted provided the vacancy exists?
        But should a vacancy arise, more than one person is likely to go for it. Those with the prescribed courses completed will usually be skipped to the top of the list over those that don't.

        In fact, I believe that if a cpl with no std course completed got promoted over one that did, well there would be near mutiny in the DF. So much so that it wouldn't be allowed.

        Comment


        • #5
          What ever about the PDF I cannot say but in the RDF promotion without std crse has happend many times. However further promotion has required the std crse and subsequent courses to be completed. Recently we were told that only pers with std crse will be considered for sgt positions. Although there is no doubt that there is merit in this there does not seem to be a requirement under requlations.
          Also I beleive that there are situations where a Cpl that shows ability and competency be should be put into a Sgt position.
          For example if you required a Sgt to run a radar station who would you give the job to, a guy that has a std crse of a Cpl with the technical know how to manage the situations that may occur within the station.
          luchi
          Cut backs
          Last edited by luchi; 8 October 2007, 17:02.
          Without supplies no army is brave.

          —Frederick the Great,

          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

          Comment


          • #6
            In the RDF it is theoretically possible to go from recruit to Lt Col having only done two courses - PotNCO and Pot Officers. There are career courses linked to each promotion (eg Std NCO for promotion to Sgt; YO, Std Offr Cse and C & S (orientation) for Officer promotions). I believe that successfully completing the revelent cse should be a requirement for promotion. The reason given for not having this requirement is that there are not sufficient places available for the numbers involved. Yet (or perhaps as a result of this) not all places on all cses are taken up. Recently, the goalposts have moved with regard to promotion and Merit is the buzz word (see Admin Instr R5). Having successfully completed the linked career cse is a major plus for selection.
            "Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight - we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy." Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

            Comment


            • #7
              But why would you want to become an Ossifer in the RDF anyway?
              "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ZULU View Post
                But why would you want to become an Ossifer in the RDF anyway?
                Because sometimes you have to stop complaining about sam browns and leadthe way in getting all those jobs done!

                However, I would be one of the people that fits into the "older / Qualified" age group so becoming an O is not something I take lightly.
                Without supplies no army is brave.

                —Frederick the Great,

                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                Comment


                • #9
                  Are you suggesting someone who is younger and perhaps less qualified technically would not take the position seriously or without a high level of enthusiasm? Get over
                  "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have only heard of the qualification of suitable military value being used with regard to the engineer corps and medical profession.

                    Of course there are qualified engineers who have chosen to be in the infantry, we even had a dentist as a former company commander.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I never did a standard NCO's course, but was promoted because of my willingness to commit to exercises and forfeiting the course instead.

                      Admittedly at the time I was senior in time served for the rank but believe firmly that anyone especially corps specific who out qualifies anyone one with time served and passes the other criteria should be promoted or fast tracked to what ever rank is required to put them in the best positition for their skills to be utilised.

                      However just because a guy has a specific qualification dosen't make him right for the job. there has to be a balance between technical skills and leadership and instructional abilities before some one gets promoted.

                      there is no point in promoting people beyond their abilities...for instance promoting a graduate to RDF rank standard when he has no founding in leadership skills and basic military skills.

                      This has always been the gripe about direct entries that their basic leadership and military skills often fall way behind their technical skills nad that their induction period does not always give them a firm insight to the reality of the DF.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Liachta Cultaca View Post
                        Well thats the way it is in the PDF,
                        No it's not the way it is in the PDF. Passing a Standard Course is mandatory for promotion to Sgt. Passing a Logs Accountancy Course for promotion to CQMS and SNCO Cse for promotion to CS.

                        Originally posted by Liachta Cultaca View Post
                        but would a Infantry Cpl get a vacancy for Sgt in the Cavalry? Or would this vacancy only be eligible to people within the same Corp?
                        An infantry Cpl would not have the necessary qualifications for promotion to a Cav Sgt Vacancy. An infantry Sgt on the other hand probably would qualify for promotion to a Cav SNCO position.
                        sigpic
                        Say NO to violence against Women

                        Originally posted by hedgehog
                        My favourite moment was when the
                        Originally posted by hedgehog
                        red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                          No it's not the way it is in the PDF. Passing a Standard Course is mandatory for promotion to Sgt. Passing a Logs Accountancy Course for promotion to CQMS and SNCO Cse for promotion to CS.
                          I was actually refering to the course being advertised within the brigade.
                          I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                            I have only heard of the qualification of suitable military value being used with regard to the engineer corps and medical profession.
                            .
                            There are further requirements for posting as an Eng Officer.

                            Originally posted by ZULU View Post
                            Are you suggesting someone who is younger and perhaps less qualified technically would not take the position seriously or without a high level of enthusiasm? Get over
                            Where did you get that from?
                            I am saying if an opertunity presents then one should take it!

                            Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                            No it's not the way it is in the PDF. Passing a Standard Course is mandatory for promotion to Sgt. Passing a Logs Accountancy Course for promotion to CQMS and SNCO Cse for promotion to CS.
                            .
                            So are the regulations different in the PDF to the RDF for promotion or is it just that a PDF man would not get the opertunity to study third level courses and so is obliged to follow the military route?
                            Without supplies no army is brave.

                            —Frederick the Great,

                            Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So are the regulations different in the PDF to the RDF for promotion or is it just that a PDF man would not get the opertunity to study third level courses and so is obliged to follow the military route?
                              there are plenty of us Soldiers that have lurnt

                              that fancy reading adn writing stuff

                              when you say 3rd level

                              we do

                              Kindergarden

                              Primary

                              and 3rd level is secondary school up to group cert

                              sure why would we need that lurning lark
                              Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                              Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                              The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                              The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                              The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                              Are full of passionate intensity.

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