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  • Docman
    replied
    Originally posted by BroadheadJ
    Speaking as someone who's living in Dublin and has talked to quite a lot of people about the RDF, I'd have to say that any problems with recruiting come from lack of awareness - I've found that in general, Dubliners know very little (to nothing!) about the RDF, while people from "the country" seem to know far more. It's a problem of tradition, but not one of lack of interest. For instance, back when I went to school, there was a poster for the PDF, but nothing about the RDF.
    The PDF have a multimillion Euro budget for recruiting. Most RDF recruiting is done out of individual soldiers pockets and time. The PDF runs a RDF recruiting program but it is majorly flawed and few potential recruits hear anything back and the RDF never hears that they existed. Case in point, the Phone No. listed by the PDF for RDF recruitment has never been answered when I have rung and any messgaes I have left have gone unreplied. Some few RDF units have been gifted by the PDF with access to recruitment fairs and equipment, but by in large, other units ahve to put in their own money and time.

    You do not see many RDF posters because they cost money and have to be designed by the units involved. Most of the time, you will see a A4 page printed from a computer.

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  • BroadheadJ
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by trellheim

    5: Western Commando : Wish we had that problem. Central, South and West Dublin, one of the most populous (if not THE) areas in the country
    is not an easy area to attract recruits
    Speaking as someone who's living in Dublin and has talked to quite a lot of people about the RDF, I'd have to say that any problems with recruiting come from lack of awareness - I've found that in general, Dubliners know very little (to nothing!) about the RDF, while people from "the country" seem to know far more. It's a problem of tradition, but not one of lack of interest. For instance, back when I went to school, there was a poster for the PDF, but nothing about the RDF.

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  • Docman
    replied
    Big problem I see here. Eastern Brigade is a different world to the rest of the country. Having trained in the East, I saw at first hand the access to training facilities and stores that they have and being from the south, I know how long it takes anything to be done in the south.

    Trellheim, it is a different world. Don't expect things to be the same all over the country as they are in Dublin.

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  • Micky
    replied
    training

    When I was in the T.A. all new recruits were trained as a single unit, all the companies would train the recruits on their own on training nights and pool the new recruits on training weekends into one recruit platoon.

    They would then be taken away and trained on their own. This continued for some months(6 in our case) then as a unit the recruit platoon would be sent to the depot along with platoons from other T.A. units across the UK and trained by the reg's along with T.A. NCO'S and officers who needed a camp. This took 2 weeks those that failed(and some did) had to be RTU'd or sent on another recruit camp.

    When we returned to our local units our training continued along with training in whatever trade we wanted to go into some stayed infantry, others went into sigs,medics, etc this continued for quite a while and after a time you moved up the pay bands until you were classed as a fully trained soldier.

    When I joined the FCA it was different (as we all know) here training was done locally. This was not such a bad idea but I did think that an opportunity was missed by not putting all the recruits together and trained as a single unit. This in my opinion would not have reduced any loyalty to the local unit, as a T.A. this only reinforced our loyalty to our cap badge.

    While I do believe that the T.A. method of training is better I can also see the good sides to the FCA training. The only thing I would make sure was changed with the FCA training was the NCO's the quality of NCO changed drastically and as a result traing standards becane erratic, to combat this I would make sure that a small pool of dedicated NCO's be appointed to the recruits so that there is some kind of continuity in their training. With the officers taking a bigger role in the training with them.

    I do agree though that training for all ranks at annual camp should be increased to 2 weeks with more training weekends during the year. maybe making some weekends "O days "(days that the soldiers all need to be there so that the unit can train properly as a proper unit)

    This said the training I received as a recruit in the FCA was good but a lot of this depended on the NCO that was giving the lesson, when it was good it was very good and when it was bad it was shite

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  • bdr
    replied
    With varying standards of training between/within units,
    the standard of recruit/2* training is directly proportional to the standard of NCO/Officer giving the training.

    Any recruit that the BTFC passes back to the parent unit is going to have to undergo a varying standard of 2* training. This will not improve or raise the standards and will undermine any of the good work that the BTFC set out to do.

    Goldie, you are correct in that all career courses are done at bde level and have been for as far as I can remember. This does not necessarily lead to a higher level of training as it has not, so far, eliminated variance between/within units.
    Perhaps the BTFC should concentrate on standardising NCO/Officer training instead of recruits.

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  • trellheim
    replied
    It's like another world .. completely different set of problems.

    WC : don't understand your points but if you have to drink with them you don't have to be their best mates ... cos that leads to major discipline problems

    ps does Castlebar have a settled unit in place ?
    Last edited by trellheim; 29 December 2003, 17:00.

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  • Western Commando
    Guest replied
    Summer camp with no recruits; great lets do some real work;oops there's no one there
    We find the opposite - our barracks (Castlebar) is quite small so preference is given to recruits. Hence, quite often trained men don’t get camps, or end up as admin details for the recruit/2*training. Needless to say we have a serious retention problem at 3* level!
    who's doing the washing up and the dining hall ; ok let's get an admin party
    This is annual camp for the 3*s! Take care would we make the recruits work!
    Wish we had that problem. Central, South and West Dublin, one of the most populous (if not THE) areas in the country
    TBH I've never understood this. Maybe its because a stronger tradition of FCA membership exists in the country, or maybe its because in the city units are more associated with the army, and train in barracks, while in rural areas they train in community centres, football pitches, etc, and might be seen as more a part of the community?
    3* in the NCO's ? Doesn't the BSM/CS administer a massive kicking ?
    No. quite the opposite; in my Unit all ranks are strongly reccommended to socialise together, so much in fact that on one occasion I was asked (by one of my Cadre) to make more of an effort to mingle with the recruits at night! Castlebar has a ORs mess and a Officers mess; however the Officers Mess has no bar so everyone ends up together. Most other places we go to are the same - Kilworth etc. But even in Finner, which has an NCOs mess, the Cadre (despite a lot of local opposition) organised that Ptes would be allowed drink there too.
    I know I’m complaining a lot about the messes. This not any kind of snobbery on my part, its just (to me at least) an erosion of another proven Military tradition in the RDF. In the place I work we had a serious problem with management socializing with staff, and a consequent discipline problem ensued. We had to put a stop to it, and I feel if it’s an issue in a private sector business it should certainly be an issue in an organization where discipline is so essential!

    for my own information - which posts/bks have just one mess for all ?
    AFAIK, just Castlebar, unless they reopen the Officers Bar.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Wait and see

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  • trellheim
    replied
    Followup :

    for my own information - which posts/bks have just one mess for all ?

    EB : only one I can think of is Kilbride
    DFTC : Glen

    (note no settled units in either - camp staffs don't count )

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  • trellheim
    replied
    Doesn't matter ; like I said most NCOs know their peers. All I'm doing is going from experience ... As soon as the BSM or CS finds out and IMHO they do fairly sharply there's what can best be described as harsh language used (and rightly so ) . In short - we don't see this problem (.

    And WHAT shortage of rank markings are we talking about ? Every two striper I know has all they need ( i.e one ) but most have 3 or 4

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    The BSM would not recognise who is NCO from who is private due to the large numbers of RDF units using the barracks,and the lack of Rank markings mean that if someone has no rank markings,he could still be an NCO.

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  • trellheim
    replied
    All please note my last point : No Quibble from a military standpoint.

    none at all.; the payoff for time invested is great.


    the difficulties all lie with the units and in the implementation. Perhaps I am speaking from inside the bucket on this one.


    However : some more points


    1. Summer camp with no recruits; great lets do some real work;oops there's no one there

    2: who's doing the washing up and the dining hall ; ok let's get an admin party oh dear there's no mandays since the cutbacks

    3: kermit's point about schools is twaddle. Very few units HE knows go around to schools. This is not the case for most of the units in my AO

    4: I have no idea where Come-Quickly is coming from but its good stuff.


    5: Western Commando : Wish we had that problem. Central, South and West Dublin, one of the most populous (if not THE) areas in the country
    is not an easy area to attract recruits


    6: 3* in the NCO's ? Doesn't the BSM/CS administer a massive kicking ?

    NCO's in the Pte's mess ? Normally the mess president asserts his authority and asks them to leave unless a function has been authorized (I was caught on this a long time ago and I wasn't on duty - went and looked it up . ) Except in (very) rare cases where someone has been granted a membership by the committee.

    What does shortage of rank markings have to do with it ? most of you know all the people in your unit. (sideline : is there still a shortage ? I know 3* are currently (last 2 months ) pretty rare due to O/Seas issues but otherwise everyone's got all they need (eastern brigade )


    Perhaps just like the above - we don't have a problem with this but others do.
    Sure if you go to the Glen and get pissed up in the mess .. as ye sow so shall ye reap .

    PS a GOC slider looks like a 2* ; Be careful who you tell to get out of your way.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    I have to agree with you on the last point there WC. I have noticed in my own unit the habit has been seen where NCOs invite their 3 star buddies to the NCOs mess,and the same happens in the privates mess. The shortage of rank markings allows this practice to continue,unchecked.
    I also notice that Segrogated messes have all but dissappeared from Annual training camps. This removes a creates a certain amount of practical difficulties as it may be difficult for a recruit to have much respect,in my opinion,for an NCO or Officer he has seen get pissed the previous night,or even got pissed with. The seperation of rank must continue during full time training at least.

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  • Western Commando
    Guest replied
    If depot trained they have no/little affinity to particular units .
    I disagree. In my Unit we find that when on annual Trg, the level of loyalty to a sub-Unit is very strong. Generally recruits retain a strong sense of belonging to their local Unit. Even if they didn't, after a few night parades and other training events it will develop.

    the recruiter has no motivation to recruit since he won't be training them. Let's face it how many of you go out and recruit when you don't have a recruit platoon to form.
    Again, I don't think this would be the case. Most FCA personnel recruit for the organization, not just for themselves. We find most of our recruits come through word-of-mouth from the previous recruit class; indeed, we fill all our vacancies at recruit level without ever running a campaign in schools.

    It has been tried several times. It doesn't work.
    I asked about this earlier. I'd be interested to hear about the circumstances and how it ended up.


    Another thing I’d like to see reintroduced to recruit training is segregated messes. I know most well run units already enforce this, but many other don’t. I’ve seen too many instances of NCOs trying unsuccessfully to train people they had been drunk with the night before. Personally I feel all training should be totally dry, but that’s never going to happen, and at least this would be a step in the right direction.

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    I think it is the way forward. When you see all "career courses" such as Pot NCO,Standard NCO,Pot Officers are done at brigade level and above,the return is a higher level of training. I remember my Pots Course in particular,individuals from some units were determined to do things the way their unit done them,only to be informed that there was "only one army". It is important to rid the RDF of these different methods from the beginning and have everyone reading from the same book.
    Standards of recruits around the country can vary greatly,and it is only late in the reserve soldiers career that this standard,whether higher or lower comes to light.
    If training recruits in one location proves impractical,would it be possible to train instructors in one location,prior to commencing training recruits? Again so everyone reads from the same book..To have a pool of dedicated recruit instructors,instead of the current situation in many units,where it is handled by Junior NCOs most recently off a POT NCO course..Supervised by a Junior Officer,and a Sergeant eager for promotion..

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