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  • New British Army Fitness tests

    Just thought this might be of interest.
    New Physical Employment standards(PES) for personnel employed in the Ground Close Combat role(GCC) in the UK. PT tests for supporting arms staying the same.
    Might be the way to go ourselves.I always thought it a little bit mad that we do a Combat Fitness test(LIFE test Pt 3) with no Personal weapon.
    lntroducing that measure alone would be a step in the right direction IMHO.

    http://www.joint-forces.com/uk-news/...ards-in-detail
    Last edited by apod; 24 September 2018, 19:27.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

  • #2
    I hear there is no difference in test for males or females. The question is, (from the outside P.C. world) are the levels lowered to allow females, or raised to exclude them?
    Or is it a case of you just needing to be fit enough to do the job regardless. The decision is causing quite a stir.
    The physical teats are real worldly though, something all soldiers would be expected to be able to do, regardless of build or gender.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

    Comment


    • #3
      It looks sensible. I wish it had been there in my day, as I could go all day carrying anything, 4k with 40kg would have been no problem, but I HATED running, and noticed that the racing snakes who were at the front of the line with the running (and lauded as such) were the ones who, in the field, really struggled to carry, lift, and generally do any more than look lean and mean.

      I remember on more than one occasion when loading 4 tonnes saying to a racing snakes "On three, you grunt, I'll lift"!
      'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
      'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
      Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
      He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
      http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

      Comment


      • #4
        It is much more resource and time intensive

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DeV View Post
          It is much more resource and time intensive
          It does seem to be. I'm thinking it would be quite time-intensive for a reserve unit to in a weekend.
          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DeV View Post
            It is much more resource and time intensive
            So?? Does that mean the DF should never move to a vocation specific test?? If the ARW can manage to run a broader ranged test what is to stop the Infantry,Cav and Arty?? It used to be the case that there were more stringent pre deployment fitness tests ( a palette of which actually) that had to be completed by British Troops during their PDT. We don't do that. LIFE test Pt1,2 and 3 and you are good to go.No matter the mission. Crazy.
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by apod View Post
              So?? Does that mean the DF should never move to a vocation specific test?? If the ARW can manage to run a broader ranged test what is to stop the Infantry,Cav and Arty?? It used to be the case that there were more stringent pre deployment fitness tests ( a palette of which actually) that had to be completed by British Troops during their PDT. We don't do that. LIFE test Pt1,2 and 3 and you are good to go.No matter the mission. Crazy.
              There is a big difference between extra tests for maybe 120 ARW and say 30 divers and extra tests for > 9,000 personnel

              They were looking at adding additional LME exercises and doing much bigger variations on Part 3 (think it was something like a 1 mile combats only, then a mile with BV, then add patrol pack, etc etc

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DeV View Post
                There is a big difference between extra tests for maybe 120 ARW and say 30 divers and extra tests for > 9,000 personnel

                They were looking at adding additional LME exercises and doing much bigger variations on Part 3 (think it was something like a 1 mile combats only, then a mile with BV, then add patrol pack, etc etc
                There aren't 9,000 troops in the Combat arms. Break down the strength of the Army and you see that. Infantry is the biggest Corps but still nowhere near that figure.
                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by apod View Post
                  There aren't 9,000 troops in the Combat arms. Break down the strength of the Army and you see that. Infantry is the biggest Corps but still nowhere near that figure.
                  CSS would need additional appropriate ones too

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    new BA tests look similar to the new US army fitness tests also.
                    https://www.military.com/daily-news/...wake-call.html
                    much more emphasis on functional fitnes and strength also.
                    defintely a good move on both organisations behalf to get rid of gender and age specifics......they just give false positive results in comparision to real world fitness requirements.
                    Dev, no reason why something similar couldn't be implemented here for both PDF and reserve units. just needs the will and some concentrated logistics effort. afterall the numbers involved in the DF are tiny compared to either the BA or US army.
                    Last edited by X-RayOne; 25 September 2018, 09:18.
                    Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

                    And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
                      Dev, no reason why something similar couldn't be implemented here for both PDF and reserve units. just needs the will and some concentrated logistics effort. afterall the numbers involved in the DF are tiny compared to either the BA or US army.
                      Except you know those guys meeting themselves coming back on all there taskings.... now 1 of them (ITs) will take longer

                      It depends on what was added, if additional LMEs (eg plank, chin ups, dips etc) they require minimal additional equipment, set up time etc. It’s we went down the functional route a lot more resources are required.

                      I’m not saying that it couldn’t or shouldn’t be done .... but as ever there are implications

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Some background.
                        http://www.defenceimagery.mod.uk/fot...795F04ACC04247
                        http://www.defenceimagery.mod.uk/fot...77ED50A6CA7DFF
                        Last edited by apod; 25 September 2018, 19:56.
                        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Duff links
                          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            Except you know those guys meeting themselves coming back on all there taskings.... now 1 of them (ITs) will take longer

                            It depends on what was added, if additional LMEs (eg plank, chin ups, dips etc) they require minimal additional equipment, set up time etc. It’s we went down the functional route a lot more resources are required.

                            I’m not saying that it couldn’t or shouldn’t be done .... but as ever there are implications
                            You've not made a decent arguement yet for not introducing something more appropriate for annual fitness tests......just a negative sounding response something along the lines of "it'll take too long.....it's too much hassle to pull the extra gear together"

                            both of which are untrue considerations.....

                            BA changing march part however all that is different is the scales of webbing everybody is already issued with and adding personel weapon. No shortages of any of that ckit currently. just sign out weapons / bring webbing to ITs.

                            Both BA and US army using the simplest weights for LME exercises....bar bells in a skip bag for drags, kettlebells, medicine balls, metal bar for chin ups.....no shortage of any of that kit in any have decent barrack gym nowadays.

                            Everybody is busy with duties, taskings, etc. that is true...but everybody knows they have an annual fitness test, annual range practice and days allocated for each every year. no problem there either.

                            the negative attitude to something that could serve to improve actual and functional fitness levels, pride and effectiveness of our soldiers is the most disappointing thing unfortunately.
                            Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

                            And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
                              You've not made a decent arguement yet for not introducing something more appropriate for annual fitness tests......just a negative sounding response something along the lines of "it'll take too long.....it's too much hassle to pull the extra gear together"

                              both of which are untrue considerations.....

                              BA changing march part however all that is different is the scales of webbing everybody is already issued with and adding personel weapon. No shortages of any of that ckit currently. just sign out weapons / bring webbing to ITs.

                              Both BA and US army using the simplest weights for LME exercises....bar bells in a skip bag for drags, kettlebells, medicine balls, metal bar for chin ups.....no shortage of any of that kit in any have decent barrack gym nowadays.

                              Everybody is busy with duties, taskings, etc. that is true...but everybody knows they have an annual fitness test, annual range practice and days allocated for each every year. no problem there either.

                              the negative attitude to something that could serve to improve actual and functional fitness levels, pride and effectiveness of our soldiers is the most disappointing thing unfortunately.
                              Is there enough of the kit in the guy to allow 10 people to do it at the same time and in every gym?
                              Do they all have the space?

                              I’m not against it I would actually question if some of the US military ones are representative



                              My point about the amount of time it will take is that jobs are being rushed, done incorrectly or not being done, things that effect people’s careers (eg admin). There aren’t enough hours in the day for a lot of people.

                              I’m not anti progression with this type of thing:
                              - the necessary resources are in place to allow large numbers to be done at one time
                              - the soldier is treated right (from pay, admin, medicals etc)
                              - sufficient capable soldiers are retained

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