Overstreached british Army nearly seized up in 2006.

[DeV]

so why order something you don't want? still took 5 years.

There were actually 2 tender competitions:

1)The first competition was cancelled in September 2005 on the recommendation of the DF "until the market for such vehicles was more mature" (ie to make sure we got the best available and due to the fact we wouldn't accept a prototype). As an interim measure we exercised our last option on MOWAGs in December 2005 on got 15 armed with a combination of 30mm turret and RIWS (HMG / GMG), delivers started in February 2007.


2) The tender was put out in May 2008, the closing date was July 2008, trials ended in November 2008, the contract was awarded in January 09. The first vehicles were delivered to Ireland by April this year. Less than 18 months after the contract was signed and less than 2 years after the tender went out.

[timhorgan]

so why order something you don't want? still took 5 years.

The main difference being is that the Irish Army was not at war but Cpl. Sarah Bryant and many other young soldiers died because of the incompetence shown at all levels. Paul g is right- Gen. Dannatt would have given his right arm to have the RG32M.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-training.html

[RoyalGreenJacket]

That competition fell through for those 65 LTV's because what was available at the time

were first generation. and not up to what we wanted.

so why order something you don't want? still took 5 years.

[sofa]

the vehicles we have not yet chosen have obviously not yet been made - so an in service date of 2011 is pretty good i reckon.

the Irish DF took 5 years to get just 66 vehicles into service:

www - Irish DF vehicle contract announced in 2005

we also got Mastiff and Ridgeback into service pretty quickly in which tens if not hundreds of lives have probably already been saved.

and c'mon - would you really expect Richard North of that anti-British propaganda website to have anything good to say about this subject?!

That competition fell through for those 65 LTV's because what was available at the time

were first generation. and not up to what we wanted.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

Tim,

Here is one example of what I'm experiencing right now.

www - how it is now

41C - fcuking redders!

too much beer to drink, catch ya later pal.

[timhorgan]

RGJ,
Here is just one example of the CGS complaing about the delays at Chilcot.

7 I think we have already this morning mentioned the
8 fact that even now the Ministry of Defence I understand
9 is deliberating between two contenders for effectively
10 a Snatch replacement. This is 2010. That was 2003/4.
11 SIR LAWRENCE FREEDMAN: Then there was Mastiff.

[paul g]

Richard North is a right wing eurosceptic, who hates Europeans and thinks climate change is a myth.

He also knows even less about Armoured Vehicles than RGJ, which is saying something. He rightly sees through theMOD'S spin/propaganda about Jackal being a "wonder vehicle" but hates the FRES utility, simply because he sees it as European. He loves Mastiff/Jackal, but as General Dannett ooiints out, they are heavy patrol vehicles, and have lots of limitations

However he is right about the MOD being crap at buying things. And he also has picked up on fact that institutional hubris, and a feeling that they had nothing to learn, led to the british campaigns in Basra and Afghanistan not being their finest hour, to put it mildly.

As for the LTAV, well the DF waited for the design to mature, and they could afford to, and have ended up with a vehicle that is worth the wait. Essentially, what Dannett said on Wednesday was that he'd give his left nut to have AFV's as capable as the ones the PDF have.

[timhorgan]

RoyalGreenJacket;309118]the vehicles we have not yet chosen have obviously not yet been made - so an in service date of 2011 is pretty good i reckon.

You miss the point, the point is that the wrong vehicles were chosen too late- Dannatt says so and he was the CGS!

and c'mon - would you really expect Richard North of that anti-British propaganda website to have anything good to say about this subject?!

This Richard North- yes- because he has been proved right over and over again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/b...th-review.html

And he is doing his duty to his country by pointing out the failures and mis-management that has let to so many unnecessary young British deaths.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

the vehicles we have not yet chosen have obviously not yet been made - so an in service date of 2011 is pretty good i reckon.

the Irish DF took 5 years to get just 66 vehicles into service:

www - Irish DF vehicle contract announced in 2005

we also got Mastiff and Ridgeback into service pretty quickly in which tens if not hundreds of lives have probably already been saved.

and c'mon - would you really expect Richard North of that anti-British propaganda website to have anything good to say about this subject?!

[timhorgan]

that's excellent - showing our commitment to get the right kit in a fully functional and tested state out to the troops who need it most.

Sorry, RGJ,
Given the choice I have I reluctantly have to disagree with you and agree with General Dannatt who was very critical of MOD procurement and was very scathing about all of this at Chilcot . Interestingly he also mentions that the new vehicles will not be avaliable before late 2011 at the earliest. (Danatt was the last BA CGS).


Richard North is also pretty scathing herre.

http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.co...ed-part-3.html

[Steamy Window]

RGJ- what would your comment be on the "nearly seized up" headline, from a POV of the guys on the ground?

[CS Gass]

10,000 civil servants under one roof.....

[RoyalGreenJacket]

And what makes it all so incredible is that the MOD procurement facility at Abbey Wood is heading towards a staffing complement of 10,000+- more than the Irish Army.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...sinbristol.htm

that's excellent - showing our commitment to get the right kit in a fully functional and tested state out to the troops who need it most.

[timhorgan]

Then along comes Dannet yesterday and says that he would have loved to have a vehicle similar to the mowag in both iraq and afthanistan, and that the Mastiff was no substitute. A lot has been said this week at the inquiry about the failure of the FRES programme, and rightly so.
Dannett is actually talking about the LPPV, which will be either the Ocelot or the SPV-400,

And what makes it all so incredible is that the MOD procurement facility at Abbey Wood is heading towards a staffing complement of 10,000+- more than the Irish Army.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...sinbristol.htm

[RoyalGreenJacket]

fair one Paul - i regularly commanded 'Snatch Patrols' in Iraq in 2004 - IED's were smaller then and our ECM stopped most of them so at the time we were fairy well protected but IED's just got bigger and more sophisticated and progressed faster than we could acquire new vehicles and so the casualties and fatalities increased. the government could and should have bought something off the shelf like the RG31, but they didn't.

at the time we considered ourselves lucky in Snatch compared to our less well equipped American counterparts travelling around in un-armoured Hummers which disintegrated when IED'd - sadly i witnessed this personally.

the Ocelot and SPV400 seem both excellent Light Patrol Vehicles so either way we will end up with a good bit of kit - it's just a pity it took so long in coming, but the Jackal is still unique and will still have it's place,and there are plenty of them to go around too.