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  • Defence Cuts

    the Irish DF have had defence cuts and we will take a lot of flak for our imminent defence cuts in the British Army too, but it seems we are not the only ones tightening the belt lads.

    the US Department of Defence need to find savings of about $100bn (£63bn) in the military budget in the next five years with the scrapping of Joint Central Command being top of the list.

    Read more here: www - US Defence Cuts

    we are not alone.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  • #2
    Not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination, should have been done years ago....

    I'm re-reading a book called "Not a Good Day to Die" at the minute, the complex chain of command is an absolute joke and resulting in deaths as a direct result, same in Somalia and possibly some incidents in Iraq. The yanks don't seem to do simple chains of command.

    To a lesser extent the same is true of the British Army, the amount of headquarters (and by extension generals and their staff officers) is unreal and yet many are non-deployable (eg there are 5 Divisions in the UK, only 2 of them operational/deployable and yet a couple of years ago they formed a new divisional HQ that was deployable (why not use one of the 3 you already have?!).

    Obviously you need HQs and generals to run and army but not to the extent where the troops on the frontline suffer, the money would be much better spend on for example helicopters, improved body armour etc etc.

    Sorry one of my pet hates rant over

    Comment


    • #3
      agreed Dev, and i am sure this will be sorted for us in the next SDSR, making us leaner, and hopefully a lot meaner.
      RGJ

      ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

      The Rifles

      Comment


      • #4
        I did a little looking back at where the Irish DF are in realtion to where they have been in other austere times.

        Apart from manpower issues and promotions and wage reductions, equipment wise we never really had it so well.

        For the years 1945 to 1990 the Army in particular bought stuff in penny packets and very usually got it wrong and ended up with nothing. I remember a point in 1992 where 1 cav had no softskin vehicles, where Clonmel had one truck , on the books to three cav and there were 4 4x4s in baks and tow of them were Toyota Landcruiser belonging to 3 cav FCA

        Along comes the celtic tiger and the DF makes some serious equipment purchases which some may question but we now have full fleets of modern vehicles, a reasonable AAA force, up to date artillery and mortars,decent APCs, MPVS,softskin 4 x 4, AFVs and TCV.

        We may be having problems naval side but this solution to this is on the horizon, the AC fleet is reasonably up to date with now major purchases to justify existence required.

        For all the money spent the DF could see out the lean times equipment wise without to much concern.

        Ok its not perfect and there is change on the cards but we are at least in better stead when we were in previous times of reccession with poor equipment and no money to buy anymore.

        get the recruiting and manning levels sorted and all should be back on track in time for the next mission with the UN.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

        Comment


        • #5
          fair one hptmurph, the Irish DF is certainly not the same army i left back in 1988!

          you have some really good kit now which is the envy of many, and as i have heard numerous times now from a few people, the Irish DF does punch above it's weight compared to several other Armies of similar size / stature.

          lets hope things get better for all of us, but for UK forces i feel a rough ride lies ahead.
          RGJ

          ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

          The Rifles

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
            the Irish DF have had defence cuts and we will take a lot of flak for our imminent defence cuts in the British Army too, but it seems we are not the only ones tightening the belt lads.

            the US Department of Defence need to find savings of about $100bn (£63bn) in the military budget in the next five years with the scrapping of Joint Central Command being top of the list.

            Read more here: www - US Defence Cuts

            we are not alone.
            Not to nitpick but they're closing Joint Forces Command (well assuming Virginia's congressional delegation doesn't manage to keep it open)...closing down Central Command (which is in charge of the Middle East and Central Asia) would present quite a problem for us right now.

            And just some more perspective from this side of the pond, it's indeed getting to a point where the "sacred cow" of government jobs is starting to enter the crosshairs. I know one goal of the Obama administration was to try and break down some of the massive contractor establishment and convert them to federal government positions, but I think they're both going to be thrown out now.
            "Everyone's for a free Tibet, but no one's for freeing Tibet." -Mark Steyn. What an IMO-centric quote, eh?

            Comment


            • #7
              The UK defence cuts are going deeper than I imagined:

              RAF to shrink to World War One levels

              The Services will lose up to 16,000 personnel, hundreds of tanks, scores of fighter jets and half a dozen ships, under detailed proposals passed to The Daily Telegraph.

              But the RAF will bear the brunt of the planned cuts. The Air Force will lose 7,000 airmen – almost one sixth of its total staff – and 295 aircraft. The cuts will leave the Force with fewer than 200 fighter planes for the first time since 1914. In addition, the Navy will lose two submarines, three amphibious ships and more than 100 senior officers, along with 2,000 sailors and marines.

              The Army faces a 40 per cent cut to its fleet of 9,700 armoured vehicles and the loss of a 5,000-strong brigade of troops.
              "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

              Never give up!!"

              Comment


              • #8
                No harm. Neither the Fast Jet fighters, or the main battle tanks are of any practical use in the current conflicts.
                Similarly, few belligerent nations posess submarines these days, to an extent that the RN requires a large flotilla of subs to seek them out.
                Losing 3 amphib ships is a worry though. If anything, these ships are the most useful and adaptable ships any navy can have. I assume that means the loss of Ocean, Albion and Bulwark? No doubt these are sarcrificed to retain the new carriers, as the old Invincible class take their place? Or do they now consider the Vince etc to be amphibs, now that they have no fixed wing air?


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                  No harm. Neither the Fast Jet fighters, or the main battle tanks are of any practical use in the current conflicts.
                  Similarly, few belligerent nations posess submarines these days, to an extent that the RN requires a large flotilla of subs to seek them out.
                  Losing 3 amphib ships is a worry though. If anything, these ships are the most useful and adaptable ships any navy can have. I assume that means the loss of Ocean, Albion and Bulwark? No doubt these are sarcrificed to retain the new carriers, as the old Invincible class take their place? Or do they now consider the Vince etc to be amphibs, now that they have no fixed wing air?
                  Fast jets - CAS ops in Afghanistan, air superiority over the UK
                  MBT - deployed by Canadian's to good effect in Afghanistan
                  Subs - Iran has a number of excellent diesel ones
                  Amhibious Ships - Fairly new
                  Carriers - I think work has started and they don't know for sure yet what aircraft will use them

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    luckily these are only 'proposals' so we will have to wait and see what we end up with.

                    i can't speak for the other services but we can't afford to lose any more Infantry battalions.
                    RGJ

                    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                    The Rifles

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                      agreed Dev, and i am sure this will be sorted for us in the next SDSR, making us leaner, and hopefully a lot meaner.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by faughanballagh View Post
                        Not to nitpick but they're closing Joint Forces Command (well assuming Virginia's congressional delegation doesn't manage to keep it open)...closing down Central Command (which is in charge of the Middle East and Central Asia) would present quite a problem for us right now.
                        Why?

                        There are 10 commands that (I think) have 3 star generals as their commanders. Why couldn't some of the jobs (eg intelligence, logistics etc) be delegated to a eg "Africa desks" with army intelligence and logistics HQs?

                        If they need troops and HQs deployed on the ground use existing divisional/corps HQ (as appropriate).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jungle View Post
                          Typhoon can do all the jobs of Jaguar, Tornado GR and Tornado F3, replace them with a single type.

                          Buy a Nimrod replacement off the shelf.

                          Remove the British Army from Germany.

                          There I've saved you a fortune!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                            I did a little looking back at where the Irish DF are in realtion to where they have been in other austere times.

                            Apart from manpower issues and promotions and wage reductions, equipment wise we never really had it so well.

                            For the years 1945 to 1990 the Army in particular bought stuff in penny packets and very usually got it wrong and ended up with nothing. I remember a point in 1992 where 1 cav had no softskin vehicles, where Clonmel had one truck , on the books to three cav and there were 4 4x4s in baks and tow of them were Toyota Landcruiser belonging to 3 cav FCA

                            Along comes the celtic tiger and the DF makes some serious equipment purchases which some may question but we now have full fleets of modern vehicles, a reasonable AAA force, up to date artillery and mortars,decent APCs, MPVS,softskin 4 x 4, AFVs and TCV.

                            We may be having problems naval side but this solution to this is on the horizon, the AC fleet is reasonably up to date with now major purchases to justify existence required.

                            For all the money spent the DF could see out the lean times equipment wise without to much concern.

                            Ok its not perfect and there is change on the cards but we are at least in better stead when we were in previous times of reccession with poor equipment and no money to buy anymore.

                            get the recruiting and manning levels sorted and all should be back on track in time for the next mission with the UN.
                            Murph you hit the nail on the head as usual!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              Remove the British Army from Germany.

                              There I've saved you a fortune!
                              that's already been happening slowly over the past few years and now with the relocation of HQ ARRC from Rheindahlen to Innsworth that means most of 1 Sig Bde and their supporting units will also leave Deutschland.

                              breaks my heart though - no more Tax-Free cars or other goods, or Living Overseas Allowance.

                              i'll always miss Germany.
                              RGJ

                              ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                              The Rifles

                              Comment

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