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Director UKSF trained by Irish Soldiers

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    Flamingo
    Hostage

  • Flamingo
    replied
    Aha, OK, thanks both.

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  • RoyalGreenJacket
    Commander in Chief

  • RoyalGreenJacket
    replied
    Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
    What is this thread about?
    it is supposed to be about Horgans claim that the "Director UKSF was trained by great Irish Soldiers" however this appears now obviously not to be the case as i have asked about this in every post and it has been avoided.

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  • timhorgan
    Banned User

  • timhorgan
    replied
    Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
    What is this thread about?
    Sorry Flamingo- but probably also about the definition of "Irishness" in regard to the British Army. I think that the decision not to retain an "Irish" Cavalry unit when the three other "home" countries did retain their identity is of some significance. What it is I do not know- does it justify a thread of its own- that depends on whether it is of any interest to other members on here.

    Another link to the main topic is of course that one of those senior Irish Cavalry officers at that time went on to command 22 SAS.
    timhorgan
    Banned User
    Last edited by timhorgan; 6 April 2011, 11:05.

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  • Flamingo
    Hostage

  • Flamingo
    replied
    What is this thread about?

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  • timhorgan
    Banned User

  • timhorgan
    replied
    RGJ: big deal - many English regiments have amalgamated into others. and in particular county regiments such as the Devon and Dorset Regiment or the Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment have all been amalgamated into the RIFLES - this is just a re-org as was that of the Irish regiments you mention and not to the detriment of the country / counties involved. it's hardly an 'anti-Irish' trend and it is afterall the 'British' army.
    Exactly RGJ: you make my point for me- here beginnith the history lesson:


    - many English regiments have amalgamated into others. and in particular county regiments such as the Devon and Dorset Regiment or the Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment have all been amalgamated into the RIFLES -
    1. All above English county regiments amalgamated into 1 larger English unit.

    2. In Wales the Royal Regiment of Wales was amalgamated with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers at the same time.

    3. Scotland likewise.

    4. But the Queen's Royal Irish Hussars were amalgamated with the Queen's Own Hussars and the Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards with the Royal Dragoon Guards. Both of the "Irish" Cavalry regiments wanted to amalgamate with each other and lobbied heavily for this outcome but they were over-ruled.

    I wonder why-as you say- "many English regiments have amalgamated into others" and as I have pointed out ditto the Welsh and Scots so-why not the Irish.

    But I am sure you will have a good explanation for all of this and I am sure all of us here on IMO would love to hear your view.
    I think that this is an interesting topic and I hope we can discuss it like adults, perhaps even a thread of its own. Thank you, RGJ.
    timhorgan
    Banned User
    Last edited by timhorgan; 6 April 2011, 10:10.

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  • timhorgan
    Banned User

  • timhorgan
    replied
    RGJ: i actually do not know who he is, a few clicks of the mouse at work would tell me who it is however - it is none of my business, as it is none of yours.
    Sorry RGJ, both OPSEC and Chatham House Rules apply as this is a serious military forum here and I have no intention of divulging the identity of the present Director UKSF.

    Those who know, don't talk
    Thoese who talk, don't know. - The Golden Rule.

    I can well understand that you do not know who he is so please take as much time as you like to find out- you can always come back on here later and tell us "I knew all along".

    BTW-he too has been very critical of Bowman in the past.
    timhorgan
    Banned User
    Last edited by timhorgan; 6 April 2011, 09:24.

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  • RoyalGreenJacket
    Commander in Chief

  • RoyalGreenJacket
    replied
    BANDIT - i already said that the Irish DF have trained many soldiers from many countries including UK and US forces.

    that is not the issue here.

    i want to know what 'great Irish Soldiers' Horgan is gobbing off about.

    Horgan is a civvie so what he knows is in the public domain so why is he starting this and not finishing it?

    it appears Horgan is actually referring to great British Soldiers, who happen to be from Ireland, and not actual Irish Soldiers from the Irish DF because he 'wholeheartedly agrees' with you Bandit that the only Irish Soldiers are those of Oglaigh na hEireann - his words not mine. this totally contradicts everything he is talking about.

    i still wait for Horgan to enlighten us.

    however on the note of recruitment - there is a very good flow now from the Republic of Ireland thank you very much
    RoyalGreenJacket
    Commander in Chief
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 6 April 2011, 08:44.

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  • BANDIT
    Banned User

  • BANDIT
    replied
    Lets gets real there is no way on earth the Irish can teach the english / British about anything . They are supermen / people. What the f-- would us bogmen know about anything , just touch the forelock agree with RGJ and be grateful that our island is situated so close to them and that we have benefited from their benevolent intentions over the years.. We should just become a breeding station for British Army recruits a place for the Oirish to fox hunt and bejaysus be happy with it.. SOOR , BEGORRAH ETC

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  • danno
    Major General

  • danno
    replied
    Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
    He wasn't any kind of a spy, he was a Nazi propagandist....
    .......but as a british passport holder this was deemed treason.There were lots of Germans who were Nazi propagandists but this did not make them British traitors.

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  • RoyalGreenJacket
    Commander in Chief

  • RoyalGreenJacket
    replied
    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    Sorry, RGJ, no point in badgering me on this- it is quite clear that you have no idea of the Great Irish Soldier I am referring to- his top BA jobs, Irish Passport and all. As you do not have a clue it would be quite wrong of me to tell you-OPSEC, I am afraid.

    Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket
    no, i don't know what great 'Irish Soldier' you refer to. please enlighten us.
    i already said i do not.

    and you are a civvvie Horgan and what you know is in the public domain so OPSEC does not apply so - please enlighten us.

    Originally posted by BANDIT View Post
    point of clarification An Irish soldier is someone who serves in the Irish Army, an Irishman serving in the British, French, US, Cleon army , is an Irishman but a soldier of the country to which he has sworn allegiance.
    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    Bandit, I agree wholeheartedly with you
    oh ok so you have changed your mind again Horgan:

    Originally posted by timhorgan
    I am referring to proud Irishmen with Irish Passports who have got to the top in UKSF and who regard themselves as Irish and are quite clearly soldiers
    make up your mind - you just said the only 'Irish Soldiers' are those of the Irish Army so what you really mean is the UKDSF was mentored by some great BRITISH Soldiers, from Ireland - it's OK i fixed that for you now

    stop talking utter sh|te and trying to mislead people as usual.

    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    No, but it is why the Inniskillings and Queens Royal Irish were not amalgamated into one Irish Cavalry unit but with two British units.
    big deal - many English regiments have amalgamated into others. and in particular county regiments such as the Devon and Dorset Regiment or the Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment have all been amalgamated into the RIFLES - this is just a re-org as was that of the Irish regiments you mention and not to the detriment of the country / counties involved. it's hardly an 'anti-Irish' trend and it is afterall the 'British' army.

    Originally posted by timgorgan
    you could of course let us know who the present Director UKSF is and then we would all be in the picture.
    i leave that stuff to the food and beverage managers of the world.

    i actually do not know who he is, a few clicks of the mouse at work would tell me who it is however - it is none of my business, as it is none of yours.

    however i'm fairly confident there will be no repercussions for you at your place of work if you disclose his ID unlike mine - so go for it Horgan

    c'mon put your money where your mouth is Horgan and keep to the thread - name the 'great Irish Soldier' who trained him and reveal his identity at the same time.
    RoyalGreenJacket
    Commander in Chief
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 6 April 2011, 01:18.

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  • timhorgan
    Banned User

  • timhorgan
    replied
    RoyalGreenJacket;Irish Soldiers? c'mon Horgan tell me more about these Irish Soldiers who trained the UKDSF. please enlighten us.

    no i don't know what great 'Irish Soldier' you refer to. please enlighten us.
    Sorry, RGJ, no point in badgering me on this- it is quite clear that you have no idea of the Great Irish Soldier I am referring to- his top BA jobs, Irish Passport and all. As you do not have a clue it would be quite wrong of me to tell you-OPSEC, I am afraid.

    oh ok so you have changed your mind again Horgan, you 'wholeheartedly' agree with Bandit that the only 'Irish Soldiers' are those of the Irish DF, so what great 'Irish Soldiers' in the Irish DF are you referring to? please enlighten us.
    I am referring to proud Irishmen with Irish Passports who have got to the top in UKSF and who regard themselves as Irish and are quite clearly soldiers.


    really? is that why we have the IRISH Guards and Royal IRISH Regiment? i don't see any 'ENGLISH Guards' or Royal ENGLISH Regiment.
    No, but it is why the Inniskillings and Queens Royal Irish were not amalgamated into one Irish Cavalry unit but with two British units. In any case- I referred to the " trend away".


    get fcuked - Keef is proud to be Irish and he has every right to fly his flag wherever he likes. he is in combat in a warzone - it's great to see him with a tri-colour out there and i 100% support him
    .

    Nothing personal with "Keef": it is the principle- in this instance he represents nobody but himself.

    so Horgan, you now 'wholeheartedly agree' that the only 'Irish Soldiers' are those who serve the Irish DF, so which great Irish Soldiers do you refer to as training the UKDSF?

    were they 'great Irish Soldiers', or were they actually 'great British Soldiers' from Ireland?
    see above -mind you. you could of course let us know who the present Director UKSF is and then we would all be in the picture.
    timhorgan
    Banned User
    Last edited by timhorgan; 5 April 2011, 12:51.

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  • RoyalGreenJacket
    Commander in Chief

  • RoyalGreenJacket
    replied
    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    ...the Director UKSF ... was trained and mentored by some great Irish soldiers...
    Irish Soldiers? c'mon Horgan tell me more about these Irish Soldiers who trained the UKDSF. please enlighten us.

    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    Sorry, Danno... I referred to the Director UKSF being trained and mentored by some great Irish soldiers

    Sorry, RGJ: as you should know yourself the present Director UKSF served under a very talented and professional Irish soldier and established a fine reputation while doing so-but it was certainly not Tim Collins I was referring to.
    no i don't know what great 'Irish Soldier' you refer to. please enlighten us.

    Originally posted by BANDIT View Post
    point of clarification An Irish soldier is someone who serves in the Irish Army, an Irishman serving in the British, French, US, Cleon army , is an Irishman but a soldier of the country to which he has sworn allegiance.
    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    Bandit, I agree wholeheartedly with you
    oh ok so you have changed your mind again Horgan:

    Originally posted by timhorgan
    I am referring to proud Irishmen with Irish Passports who have got to the top in UKSF and who regard themselves as Irish and are quite clearly soldiers
    you 'wholeheartedly' agree with Bandit that the only 'Irish Soldiers' are those of the Irish DF, so what great 'Irish Soldiers' in the Irish DF are you referring to? please enlighten us.

    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    In the British Army itself there is a trend away from using the term Irish
    really? is that why we have the IRISH Guards and Royal IRISH Regiment? i don't see any 'ENGLISH Guards' or Royal ENGLISH Regiment.

    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    The only time the Irish tricolour should be used in Afghanistan - or anywhere else- would be with an Irish Army unit-following a deployment there executed through the triple-lock mechanism. Otherwise "Keef" and anyone else should know that they have no right whatsoever to pretend that they represent us. They most emphatically do not.
    FINIS!
    get fcuked - Keef is proud to be Irish and he has every right to fly his flag wherever he likes. he is in combat in a warzone - it's great to see him with a tri-colour out there and i 100% support him.

    so Horgan, you now 'wholeheartedly agree' that the only 'Irish Soldiers' are those who serve the Irish DF, but now you are back-peddaling again so which great Irish Soldiers do you refer to as training the UKDSF?

    were they 'great Irish Soldiers', or were they actually 'great British Soldiers' from Ireland?

    i've been asking you since post #1

    please enlighten us...
    RoyalGreenJacket
    Commander in Chief
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 5 April 2011, 20:29.

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  • Truck Driver
    Captain

  • Truck Driver
    replied
    Originally posted by danno View Post
    On a point of clarification Joyce was hung for treason, As regards the identity crisis referred to,Dev would have gone the way of the15 others had he been considered British.
    He wasn't any kind of a spy, he was a Nazi propagandist....

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  • danno
    Major General

  • danno
    replied
    [QUOTE=Goldie fish;

    Was Lord Haw-Haw a Nazi spy or an Irish Spy?[/QUOTE]

    On a point of clarification Joyce was hung for treason, As regards the identity crisis referred to,Dev would have gone the way of the15 others had he been considered British.

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  • RoyalGreenJacket
    Commander in Chief

  • RoyalGreenJacket
    replied
    Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
    I was especially heartened from my point near the GPO to be standing next to a Dublin family with a young daughter of about 7 from the northside of Dublin. The parents were Dubliners and white- the little girl was black and obviously adopted. I got talking to the family and mentioned to the little girl that we would need people like her in the Army. With great pride she told me about the results she was achieving at her school- she was impressed with the parade and was now seriously considering the Army as a career. I told her "we need people like you".
    a 7 year old black girl told you she was "now seriously considering the Army as a career"

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