Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Military send unsuitable Typhoon to Libya

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Military send unsuitable Typhoon to Libya

    This from the Times yesterday


    Military send unsuitable Typhoons on Libya mission to justify £20bn

    Tom Coghlan Defence Correspondent
    Last updated April 22 2011 12:00AM

    The RAF’s over-budget Typhoon fighter jets are being deployed in Libya on missions for which they are ill-equipped because military chiefs are anxious to justify their high cost, The Times has learnt.

    Defence sources said that attacks on Libyan tanks by the RAF’s multimillion-pound Typhoons were a public relations stunt not driven by operational need.

    A source said that RAF Command was “increasingly desperate” for the publicity value of the RAF’s newest aircraft destroying enemy vehicles in Libya. “It was inferred from on high that this needed to happen,” said the source, who wishes to remain anonymous.

    The first combat attack by the £20 billion Eurofighter Typhoon occurred on April 12. But the Ministry of Defence did not reveal that the Typhoon in the strike could not target enemy vehicles, and was using on older, less capable bomb that carried a higher risk of causing collateral damage.

    Instead an RAF Tornado GR4 ground-attack aircraft fitted with a Litening II targeting pod was forced to fly alongside it to provide the targeting capability for the Typhoon.

    The news of the tank strike came the day before the release of a highly critical report by the Public Accounts Committee into the Typhoon programme.

    The committee chairman, Margaret Hodge, told The Times last night: “It struck us as very coincidental that this [airstrike] happened at the last minute [before the report].”

    The Typhoon was designed to fight Soviet aircraft during the Cold War but the RAF claims it now has wider utility as a ground attack aircraft.

    The MoD press release on April 13 said: “Yesterday evening a Typhoon patrolling with a Tornado over western Libya was able to positively identify regime main battle tanks (MBTs) to the south of Misrata. The two aircraft attacked and the Typhoon successfully engaged two MBTs with Enhanced Paveway II bombs, while the Tornado hit another MBT with Paveway IV.”

    The press release added: “The RAF have sufficient Typhoon aircrew to undertake the current task, with appropriate training for all the systems and weapons carried by the aircraft, whether air-to-air or air-to-ground munitions.”

    The bombs dropped by the Typhoon were the dated 1,000lb Enhanced Paveway IIs because it could not fit the more advanced 500lb Paveway IV bombs. The accompanying Tornado was fitted with and was carrying 500lb Paveway IV bombs.

    The 1,000lb Enhanced Paveway II bomb has a blast radius around “one third larger” than the Paveway IV, say defence sources, making it a weapon with a potentially greater risk of collateral damage in a built-up area.

    One defence source told The Times: “The Typhoon has been doing nothing because Colonel Gaddafi’s aircraft haven’t been taking off. The aim was just trying to get bombs dropped off it. It was a fudge, a publicity stunt, purely political. They were trying to use Typhoon in a ground-attack role but the only bomb they can drop is an old 1,000-pounder which doesn’t cut the mustard. It’s a big explosion, it’s old and it’s not a great weapon. There is a greater risk of collateral, certainly in an urban environment.”

    Footage of the Typhoon attack released by the MoD on April 13 showed two Libyan tanks surrounded by buildings in an area that the MoD said was south of Misrata followed by a huge explosion. However, the footage actually came from the targeting pod of the accompanying Tornado GR4, The Times has been told — a fact not mentioned by the MoD.

    In its original form the Public Accounts Committee report was to have been critical of the money spent by the RAF on delivering a ground-attack capability for the Typhoon. The Times understands the report was originally to have pointed out that the RAF still had not made use of the ground-attack capability. However, after the announcement by the MoD that it would use the Typhoon in this role over Libya the report was changed.

    The report also expressed concern that the RAF had only eight Typhoon pilots qualified to carry out ground-attack missions, and questioned whether the MoD needed to purchase a final tranche of 16 Typhoons.

    Mrs Hodge added: “What was striking about the evidence we took was the difficulty everybody had in justifying the further purchase of those Typhoons. It seems they are now trying to justify the Typhoons are fit for modern purpose.”

    According to figures released by the RAF the Tornado GR4 costs £33,912 per flying hour while the Eurofighter Typhoon costs £85,895.

    Last night the MoD said in a statement: “The Typhoon has been re-roled to provide both air defence and ground-attack capabilities as part of Nato’s Operation Unified Protector and released Enhanced Paveway II bombs which destroyed two main battle tanks in the area around Misrata on Tuesday 12 April 2011.

    “Any suggestion that the weapons release was connected to the publication of the Public Accounts Committee’s report on Typhoon is pure fantasy.”


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If this report is correct then perhaps I owe an apology for finding it hard to accept on another thread that the UKSF would not need BOWMAN as well as their own comms. kit. It is all totally beyond belief.
    Last edited by timhorgan; 24 April 2011, 10:54.

  • #2
    the Labour government let the Eurofighter program rot - no wonder it's not as capable as it should be.

    however don't believe everything you read in the papers as here is the RAF Typhoon leaving Italy headed for Libya with it's own Litening pod:



    and here is the pilots account of how he engaged the enemy tanks from the Litening pod fitted to his RAF Typhoon:

    The Royal Air Force pilot who carried out the first operational Typhoon aircraft strike on a ground target has been describing the mission.

    The first strike was made against a Libyan regime main battle tank during a mission on Tuesday, 12 April.

    The pilot said: “We’d been tasked to Misratah in the West of Libya, which is pretty much a city under siege, with significant numbers of attacks against the civilian population from pro-regime forces. We were looking along one of the main supply routes in Misratah when we came across a compound with around 10 – 15 main battle tanks in.

    “We reported our findings to the command and control assets we work with and shortly thereafter, were cleared to engage."

    “At that point, we generated coordinates for the targets and dropped weapons. Each time we assessed the likely weapon effect and whether there would be any collateral damage implications."

    "I’ve dropped a significant number of weapons from the Typhoon in training. It felt no different from that, only this time I was even more relieved to see the bomb go exactly where it should have done, in the Litening III image displayed in my cockpit.”

    “It was a precision attack from a significant altitude.
    "

    Read More here: http://www.bfbs.com/news/raf/typhoon...ike-46743.html

    the bottom line is - the RAF are destroying ground targets in Libya with the RAF Typhoon - hardly 'totally beyond belief' and seems pretty 'suitable' to me.
    Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 24 April 2011, 12:06.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

    Comment


    • #3
      The crabs can kick the s^&t out of tanks - but ask them for a decent brew on a 10 hour flight ?
      Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

      Comment


      • #4
        "The 1,000lb Enhanced Paveway II bomb has a blast radius around “one third larger” than the Paveway IV, say defence sources, making it a weapon with a potentially greater risk of collateral damage in a built-up area."

        Slightly silly article. Paveway I/II/II/IV refers to the guidance equipment, not the size / blast radius of the bomb, although not all bomb sizes appear to be available with all generations of guidance equipment. Of course, using bombs that size on tanks is a bit overkill.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paveway
        Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Victor View Post
          "The 1,000lb Enhanced Paveway II bomb has a blast radius around “one third larger” than the Paveway IV, say defence sources, making it a weapon with a potentially greater risk of collateral damage in a built-up area."

          Slightly silly article. Paveway I/II/II/IV refers to the guidance equipment, not the size / blast radius of the bomb, although not all bomb sizes appear to be available with all generations of guidance equipment. Of course, using bombs that size on tanks is a bit overkill.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paveway
          It could be due the possibility of error in the guidance

          Comment


          • #6
            I thought they were bragging about using the Brimstone weapon against tanks, for it's first combat kill, off the Typhoon, not the old Paveway LGB, only a week or two ago.
            regards
            GttC

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Victor View Post
              "The 1,000lb Enhanced Paveway II bomb has a blast radius around “one third larger” than the Paveway IV, say defence sources, making it a weapon with a potentially greater risk of collateral damage in a built-up area."

              Slightly silly article. Paveway I/II/II/IV refers to the guidance equipment, not the size / blast radius of the bomb, although not all bomb sizes appear to be available with all generations of guidance equipment. Of course, using bombs that size on tanks is a bit overkill.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paveway
              It said that the Paveway IV the Tornado was carrying was 500lbs and the Paveway II the Typhoon had was 1,000lbs.

              So they are referring to the size rather than the guidance system.

              They are comparing 500lbs with 1,000lbs rather than Paveway IV vs Paveway II

              Comment


              • #8
                What size do you want your swimming pool to be? BOOM! or BADOOM!?
                regards
                GttC

                Comment


                • #9
                  so far we have engaged and destroyed over 300 targets in Libya and the RAF Typhoon has responsible for a number of these.

                  works for me.
                  RGJ

                  ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                  The Rifles

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Given the RAF are throwing every thing except the kitchen sink at Libya its only a matter of time before the Battle of Britian memorial flight is pressed into service!
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Don't forget the swordfish. The Libyan navy may still be a threat.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                        Given the RAF are throwing every thing except the kitchen sink at Libya its only a matter of time before the Battle of Britian memorial flight is pressed into service!
                        well when other nations won't step up to the mark, we have to make up the numbers.
                        RGJ

                        ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                        The Rifles

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is the strain on resources starting to show?

                          From the BBC

                          "Two RAF Typhoon pilots due to fly missions over Libya were sent back to the UK for "inappropriate behaviour", it has emerged.

                          The men, based at Gioia del Colle in Italy, returned to RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire at the end of March.

                          The disciplinary action followed a night's drinking, but the MoD was unable to confirm whether the pilots were declared unfit to fly.

                          A spokesperson said two personnel had been "returned from detachment".

                          The incident at the Gioia del Colle base, where the RAF's Typhoon and Tornado fighter jets are based, is understood to have led to a temporary alcohol ban for other RAF personnel serving in the Mediterranean.

                          Continue reading the main story

                          Start Quote

                          There are very strict rules... and if people step over the line they will be dealt with pretty harshly”

                          Gerry Connelly
                          Ex-RAF Air Vice Marshal
                          In a statement, the MoD said: "Two RAF personnel have been returned from detachment in Gioia del Colle following inappropriate behaviour; this has not affected the RAF's ability to sustain its current commitments.

                          "Individuals who are found to have fallen below the high standards of conduct demanded by the RAF can face appropriate internal action."

                          Gerry Connelly, a retired Air Vice Marshal and former commander at RAF Wittering in Cambridgeshire, described the news as "disappointing".

                          'Face consequences'
                          The ex-fighter pilot said: "What's gone on, we don't know - but what I do know for certain is that the RAF takes a very firm view of any activities like drinking in and around flying, particularly in these sorts of conditions because clearly the two don't mix.

                          "There are very strict rules and they're very strictly enforced and if people step over the line they will be dealt with pretty harshly.

                          "You could argue that being sent home from Gioia del Colle is not very harsh in some ways but it would be for them a big issue, and they will have to face the consequences of whatever their actions are."

                          The southern Italian airfield is the forward operating base for the RAF during the Libya campaign.

                          Twelve of the UK's Tornado jets and six Typhoon fighters - used to carry out bombing missions and patrol the no-fly zone - are stationed there.

                          The aircrafts' pilots have so far flown more than 70 sorties, according to the MoD."

                          http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-13538708

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Orion View Post
                            Is the strain on resources starting to show?

                            From the BBC

                            "Two RAF Typhoon pilots due to fly missions over Libya were sent back to the UK for "inappropriate behaviour", it has emerged.
                            that's not a strain on resources - that's lads having a great time and making the most it in Italy!

                            we get lads sent back from almost every country we are based in.

                            we are off to Gibraltar on exercise for a month - we will probably have blokes sent back from that too. it's nothing out of the ordinary - boys will be boys.
                            RGJ

                            ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                            The Rifles

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                              that's not a strain on resources - that's lads having a great time and making the most it in Italy!

                              we get lads sent back from almost every country we are based in.

                              we are off to Gibraltar on exercise for a month - we will probably have blokes sent back from that too. it's nothing out of the ordinary - boys will be boys.
                              You should start employing grown ups so.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X