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Military send unsuitable Typhoon to Libya

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  • #46
    I really don't think the RAF knows what it wants. It gets a spanking new interceptor to shoot down Russian "Bears" over the North Sea and prematurely retires all it's mudmovers (Harrier, Jag, GR4) and then gets into yet another war where it needs more mudmovers instead of interceptors. So they frantically try to convert the shiny new jet to be a grungy attack aircraft, while sneaking in a few Apaches to get their knees brown and give the Army a go.
    regards
    GttC

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    • #47
      MRCA contract
      Must Refurbish Canberra Again.....
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • #48
        Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
        I really don't think the RAF knows what it wants. It gets a spanking new interceptor to shoot down Russian "Bears" over the North Sea and prematurely retires all it's mudmovers (Harrier, Jag, GR4) and then gets into yet another war where it needs more mudmovers instead of interceptors. So they frantically try to convert the shiny new jet to be a grungy attack aircraft, while sneaking in a few Apaches to get their knees brown and give the Army a go.
        regards
        GttC
        They say that the difference between airforces and the boyscouts is that the boyscouts are run by adults.

        The RAF top brass wanted fighter jets like Eurofighter so that they could refight the battle of britain, and didn't want to do something as plebian as support the army. Now, with cuts coming they're desperate to justify their spanking new fighters.

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        • #49
          It seems the shit has hit the fan, according to the Mornings Telegraph.

          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...e-to-cuts.html

          Navy chief: Britain cannot keep up its role in Libya air war due to cuts

          The British military intervention in Libya is unsustainable, the head of the Navy has said.

          By James Kirkup, Political Correspondent

          9:19PM BST 13 Jun 2011



          Adml Sir Mark Stanhope said the campaign would have been more effective without the Government's defence cuts.


          The aircraft carrier and the Harrier jump-jets scrapped under last year's strategic defence review would have made the mission more effective, faster and cheaper, he said.


          Sir Mark warned that the Navy would not be able to sustain its operations in Libya for another three months without making cuts elsewhere.


          The First Sea Lord's comments will stir the debate over defence cuts that have left Britain without a working aircraft carrier and forced the Royal Navy's Harrier jump jets to be mothballed.


          Highlighting military anger over the shrinking Armed Forces, another admiral warned that "comical" defence cuts would leave the Navy without enough ships to be effective.

          Ministers have repeatedly argued that Britain has had no need of either HMS Ark Royal or the Harriers in the Libyan mission because planes can fly from bases in Italy, such as Gioia del Colle.

          But Sir Mark said the carrier and its planes would have been useful in Libya. "If we had Ark Royal and the Harriers, I feel relatively reassured that we would have deployed that capability off Libya," he said.

          Harriers would have been used for "ground support" operations, attacking Col Gaddafi's land forces, he said.

          Sir Mark appeared to contradict ministers' assurances on the Italian bases. He said operating Harriers from an aircraft carrier would have allowed British forces to respond more quickly to events on the ground in Libya.

          "The pros would have been a much more reactive force," he said. "Rather than deploying from Gioia del Colle, we would deploy within 20 minutes as opposed to an hour and a half, so obviously there are some advantages. It's cheaper to fly an aircraft from an aircraft carrier than from the shore." Scrapping Ark Royal and its Harriers was perhaps the most controversial decision made in last year's Strategic Defence and Security Review. The Coalition has said it could not afford to maintain the ship or the planes. Military analysts and retired defence chiefs have said the cuts have limited Britain's military capabilities.

          Despite his remarks, Sir Mark said there could be no going back on the cuts. "We have got to look forward."

          British forces have been in action in Libya since March, yet Col Gaddafi remains in power. On June 1, Nato extended the military mission by another 90 days.

          Sir Mark said British forces would be "comfortable" with another three months of operations.

          "Beyond that, we might have to request the Government to make some challenging decisions about priorities," he said. "There are different ways of doing this. It's not simply about giving up standing commitments, we will have to rebalance."

          Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, said last week that Britain and France were struggling to maintain the Libyan operation without significant American support and supplies.

          Sir Mark confirmed that the Navy had been forced to ask the US to resupply Tomahawk cruise missiles used by submarines targeting Libya.

          "We are not running out, but we certainly have to take action to replace those weapons to bring stockpiles back up to where they were," he said.

          As well as Ark Royal and the Harriers, the Navy is losing 5,000 posts under the defence review.

          Rear-Adml David Steel, the head of Navy personnel, said the defence cuts would be a major challenge for the Senior Service.

          "Our ships are hugely capable but we just don't have enough of them," he told a veterans' conference in Plymouth at the weekend.

          "Having to make so many people redundant would be almost comical if it were not so serious."

          Dr Liam Fox, the Defence Secretary, defended the defence review last night. He said: "We continue to have the resources necessary to carry out the operations we are undertaking."

          An MoD source said: "Unfortunately Harriers wouldn't have been able to carry the precision weapons needed for these operations."
          Goldie fish
          Tim Horgan
          Last edited by Goldie fish; 14 June 2011, 00:20.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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          • #50
            time for other nations to step up to the mark and contribute in greater / equal numbers to what the British and French have done then isn't it?

            it's testimony to the amount of ordnance we have dropped and Libyan targets we have destroyed.

            although i don't see what this has got to do with the RAF Typhoon.
            RoyalGreenJacket
            Commander in Chief
            Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 14 June 2011, 00:58.
            RGJ

            ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

            The Rifles

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            • #51
              Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
              time for other nations to step up to the mark and contribute in greater / equal numbers to what the British and French have done then isn't it?

              it's testimony to the amount of ordnance we have dropped and Libyan targets we have destroyed.

              although i don't see what this has got to do with the RAF Typhoon.
              I doubt they're in a much better position in terms of available munitions.
              "Everyone's for a free Tibet, but no one's for freeing Tibet." -Mark Steyn. What an IMO-centric quote, eh?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post

                although i don't see what this has got to do with the RAF Typhoon.
                Don't you see? The Head of the RN is criticising the Government for deleting an aircraft type that could do the job more efficiently from a mothballed aircraft carrier than the typhoon working from Italy?


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #53
                  the RAF Typhoon is doing a pretty good job, agreed the Harrier on a Carrier based closer would be alot more efficient.

                  we need a Carrier.
                  RGJ

                  ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                  The Rifles

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                  • #54
                    Actually, 'you' need at least two, and a fleet of suitable fast jets to operate from them if you want to even pretend at superpower status. Given the coming spending restrictions in the UK, and the long term funding pressures. that's going to be very tough to arrange.

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                    • #55
                      it won't happen for a long time Aiden.

                      no one is pretending to be a Super Power - we still have the trump card of a Nuclear Attack Capability and we were one of the only nations capable of firing Tomahawk missiles into Libya, but what we are probably doing is punching above our weight and i am confident the rebels in Libya welcome our presence and resent everyone else's absence.
                      RGJ

                      ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                      The Rifles

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                      • #56
                        Whatever the relative merits of the various air options the costs are mounting. Some UK press reports suggest a six month "air" engagement in Libya will cost the UK £1bn.

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                        • #57
                          i don't doubt it Orion - we pay £40,000 per night in hotel bills in Italy alone.
                          RGJ

                          ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                          The Rifles

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                          • #58
                            That's my point country can't afford it.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Orion View Post
                              That's my point country can't afford it.
                              we've just spent a £billion on infant vaccinations for other countries so they too can grow up to enter the UK as illegal immigrants.

                              go figure.

                              anyhow, i reckon the Typhoon is better than the Rafale - if only we could send it off the end of a carrier - if we had a carrier!
                              RGJ

                              ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                              The Rifles

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                                .....

                                anyhow, i reckon the Typhoon is better than the Rafale ......
                                Why?

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