Military send unsuitable Typhoon to Libya

[Goldie fish]

Why?

Cos it's made in england.

[spaceghetti]

Isn't the Typhoon based on the Rafale?

I love the Rafale. It's my favorite.

Cos it's made in england.

Wasn't the Typhoon mainly designed by the Germans though?

(Sounds like the L85A2 )

[Aidan]

Isn't the Typhoon based on the Rafale

Both designs stemmed from the same original competition - the French left after either (a) they were refused project lead, or (b) the other 3 countries involved refused to build a carrier capable version due to the additional weight/complexity.

The funny thing is that while both were designed from the outset as multirole types, the States building the Eurofighter insisted on getting to full air to air operational capability first, whereas the French stuck to their guns, and brought the Rafale into service as a multirole aircraft from the outset.

The general consensus in the aviation press is that the two aircraft are basically comparable, and that while the Eurofighter has a better avionics suite (even after both types end up with the same AESA radar in time), the Rafale will likely remain a better ground attack aircraft due to it's larger size and heavier build.

[Goldie fish]

Isn't the Typhoon based on the Rafale?

I love the Rafale. It's my favorite.



Wasn't the Typhoon mainly designed by the Germans though?

(Sounds like the L85A2 )

Ah to be fair, the EFA/Eurofighter/EF2000/EAP is a fine aircraft, however the mostly political delays means it entered service too late. It was first planned in 1972 after all, and didn't make the production floor until 2002.

However it reminds me of the Bradley IFV design and construction process. The end result provided a fantastic piece of kit, even if the path there was troubled.

[easyrider]

.......
The general consensus in the aviation press is that the two aircraft are basically comparable, and that while the Eurofighter has a better avionics suite (even after both types end up with the same AESA radar in time), the Rafale will likely remain a better ground attack aircraft due to it's larger size and heavier build.

The aircraft are very similar in size, as you say, but if anything it's the Eurofighter - Typhoon to you, RGJ - that's slightly bigger. It also has more powerful engines. I would have thought that Rafale's avionics suite was regarded as the better of the two because it is more integrated. The Eurofighter is best at high level - its design priority - whereas Rafale is better at low to medium altitudes, but both are still evolving, although Rafale is perhaps further down that road than Eurofighter.

It will be interesting to see which one the Indian Air Force opts for, having shortlisted them for its Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft requirement.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

not too sure as i am no Jet Junkie but i was told the Typhoon is much more manoeuvrable when fully loaded and has a better thrust to weight ratio.

it's also got voice recognition (then again so did the Range Rover we had in Baghdad) and it's supposed to be pretty high-tec at the front end.

although i do really like the look of the Rafale, unfortunately though - it is French

[Goldie fish]

Rafale also has a slightly larger radar profile than the Typhoon.

[easyrider]

.......

although i do really like the look of the Rafale, unfortunately though - it is French

Then this must be the ultimate indignity?

"Royal Navy pilots forced to learn French
Royal Navy fighter pilots are being forced to learn French in order to operate on board France’s flagship aircraft carrier......"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8570983/Royal-Navy-pilots-forced-to-learn-French.html

[RoyalGreenJacket]

Then this must be the ultimate indignity?

"Royal Navy pilots forced to learn French
Royal Navy fighter pilots are being forced to learn French in order to operate on board France’s flagship aircraft carrier......"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rn-French.html

yes, it's payback time, for calling us Pongo's all this time and dropping supplies for our soldiers in Afghanistan in enemy territory.

[spaceghetti]

it's also got voice recognition

Thats not so advanced. My xbox has that!

[Jetjock]

At the moment the Rafale is the pick of the two for this mission. There is nothing much to separate them from a performance point of view, but the Rafale has a better air to ground package already integrated. Already tried and tested in combat in Afghanistan. Libya is the first combat outing for the Typhoon. Given time, it will catch up and may even surpass the Rafale, but it's not there yet. There will be never be much to choose between them.

These are the words of an RAF vet on the matter:

"The classic definitions of aircraft combat roles really do not do justice to this aircraft; the Rafale is Europe's force-multiplying "war-fighter" par excellence. It is simply the best and most complete combat aircraft that I have ever flown. Its operational deployments speak for themselves. If I had to go into combat, on any mission, against anyone, I would, without question, choose the Rafale. "

This is an extract from a report written by Peter Collins(ex Red Arrows team leader on the matter).

Full flight test report can be read here:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...nt-rafale.html

It emerged afterwards that Mr Collins, a Harrier vet had never actually flown the Typhoon. However when a fuss was kicked up, Flight Int requested a test flight of a Typhoon by the same author. They were declined.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

"If I had to go into combat, on any mission, against anyone, I would, without question, choose the Rafale", said ex-RAF Sqn Ldr Collins.

It emerged afterwards that Mr Collins, a Harrier vet had never actually flown the Typhoon.

it also emerged after this article was published that Mr Collins has 'acquired' a large luxury villa near the small town of Dassault in France where he will spend the rest of his retirement on a nice nest egg

[Jetjock]

Smear campaign or verifiable?

[GoneToTheCanner]

And you don't think that British manufacturers give bungs? I refer you to the Saudi Yamamah contract...as for Collins' comments, why not? He was coming out of the Harrier force, which was probably the best thing he had encountered until he flew the Rafale. Anyhow, it's nitpicking. The Rafale exists because the French are as obstinate as ever and insist on having their own world-class defence industry, ie, keeping French jobs for Frenchmen. Apart from that, the Italian Typhoons, in action in Libya are being referred to as EF2000s in the aeronautical press and no-one is apparently crowing about them.
regards
GttC