New Zealand Defence Force

[Sparky42]

Is New Zealand looking at getting back fighter capacity?

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/09/07/nz-f-16c/

[na grohmiti]

Is New Zealand looking at getting back fighter capacity?
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/09/07/nz-f-16c/

Old article, but the latest security assessment seems to suggest it.

[DeV]

Let’s hope Ukraine get there’s first

[Anzac]

Is New Zealand looking at getting back fighter capacity?
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/09/07/nz-f-16c/

My guess is that article is ChatGPT generated as it rehashes information up to 20 years old. The current Government has no defined plans to have an air combat capability.

That said we have an election on at the moment and two of the three parties that may form part of the next coalition Government (NZ uses the MMP voting system similar to Germany) ACT and NZ First, have an air combat capability as part of a 2% of GDP Defence spend as part of their election manifesto.

[Anzac]

Let’s hope Ukraine get there’s first

With the Argies along after that with ex Danish F-16's.

https://batimes.com.ar/news/argentin...ter-jets.phtml

Note that all of a sudden the Poms have got the memo:

Now, the obstacle is the military embargo imposed by the UK due to the Malvinas War, which has been restricting Argentina's access to the international arms market, thus blocking the way for the delivery of the planes in question, now coming from Denmark.

Sources from the Department of State claim that the UK has already lifted that barrier, and now only the financial conditions need to be agreed upon.

[na grohmiti]

Totally off topic,but its long after time that the UK grew up when it comes to Argentina. Imagine if the US treated Japan the same way 40 years after Pearl Harbour? There's a much better defenced Falklands for starters, with a flight of Gen 4.5 aircraft protecting its skies, supported by tankers, plus the RAF long range transport game is light years ahead of what it was in 1982. Not to mention the South Atlantic Naval presence, small as it is, is still enough to keep any invasion from a democratic junta free Argentina at bay for an indefinite time. Not to mention the upgraded defences at Mt Pleasant.
Move on! Its been 41 years, and Argentina are still struggling to keep afloat 2 of the warships they used during the invasion. Let them have their F16s. They haven't been able to get their skyhawks anywhere near the south atlantic since the war ended. Why would that change for F16s?

[Sparky42]

Totally off topic,but its long after time that the UK grew up when it comes to Argentina. Imagine if the US treated Japan the same way 40 years after Pearl Harbour? There's a much better defenced Falklands for starters, with a flight of Gen 4.5 aircraft protecting its skies, supported by tankers, plus the RAF long range transport game is light years ahead of what it was in 1982. Not to mention the South Atlantic Naval presence, small as it is, is still enough to keep any invasion from a democratic junta free Argentina at bay for an indefinite time. Not to mention the upgraded defences at Mt Pleasant.
Move on! Its been 41 years, and Argentina are still struggling to keep afloat 2 of the warships they used during the invasion. Let them have their F16s. They haven't been able to get their skyhawks anywhere near the south atlantic since the war ended. Why would that change for F16s?

It is fairly insane alright, I mean I could understand it in the immediate post war years so as to buy time to build up the defences “just in case” but as you say 4 decades on it’s just nuts and petty.

[Anzac]

It is fairly insane alright, I mean I could understand it in the immediate post war years so as to buy time to build up the defences “just in case” but as you say 4 decades on it’s just nuts and petty.

The bemusement here is that because the Poms kept up an embargo (until Washington decided otherwise due to the bigger strategic picture in play), the Argies are possibly ending up with very capable F-16's possessing the most recent Euro M6.5 capability upgrades whereas just 3 years ago the Poms put the mocka on them getting Block Zero FA-50's or Kfir's due to UK content. Note they are getting four P-3C Orion's with upgrades as well.

There is no reason that these ex RDAF aircraft could not get out to 12000 flying hours following a future remanufacturing to F-16V standard.

[Flamingo]

Totally off topic,but its long after time that the UK grew up when it comes to Argentina. Imagine if the US treated Japan the same way 40 years after Pearl Harbour? There's a much better defenced Falklands for starters, with a flight of Gen 4.5 aircraft protecting its skies, supported by tankers, plus the RAF long range transport game is light years ahead of what it was in 1982. Not to mention the South Atlantic Naval presence, small as it is, is still enough to keep any invasion from a democratic junta free Argentina at bay for an indefinite time. Not to mention the upgraded defences at Mt Pleasant.
Move on! Its been 41 years, and Argentina are still struggling to keep afloat 2 of the warships they used during the invasion. Let them have their F16s. They haven't been able to get their skyhawks anywhere near the south atlantic since the war ended. Why would that change for F16s?

I suppose it might be because in 1985, Japan wasn’t still laying claim to The Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Zone, while Argentina still want The Falklands. Anyway, seriously off-topic. Carry on.

[spider]

I suppose it might be because in 1985, Japan wasn’t still laying claim to The Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Zone, while Argentina still want The Falklands. Anyway, seriously off-topic. Carry on.

That and the J2 (MI6) picture, Argentina being historically politically unstable, and the Chinese / Russian influence. But that won't be a popular angle on IMO.

[Sparky42]

That and the J2 (MI6) picture, Argentina being historically politically unstable, and the Chinese / Russian influence. But that won't be a popular angle on IMO.

Given the absolute state of their military, and the time it would take to fix those issues before even being able to threaten the Islands, continuously acting like the Islands are at risk is like thinking Exercise Armageddon would have had a snowballs chance in hell. As for Chinese/Russian influence, arguable if the U.K. had been willing to allow some of the previous attempts to strengthen their military then that influence might have been less, as can be seen by how the US seems to be looking to curb their interest now.

[spider]

Given the absolute state of their military, and the time it would take to fix those issues before even being able to threaten the Islands, continuously acting like the Islands are at risk is like thinking Exercise Armageddon would have had a snowballs chance in hell. As for Chinese/Russian influence, arguable if the U.K. had been willing to allow some of the previous attempts to strengthen their military then that influence might have been less, as can be seen by how the US seems to be looking to curb their interest now.

Whether or not their military is currently capable of attacking the Falkland Islands...the Argentines are still politically agitating and repeating their claim to the islands. One of the parts of the Just War Theory is that military action should always be a last resort, and that all avenues to prevent a conflict, including diplomatic ones should have been exhausted. By using political influence to prevent the Argentines acquiring long-range fighter jets capable of attacking the islands, the UK are protecting not only their own national self-interest, but the security of the wider South Atlantic / Antarctica region. Its easier to use diplomacy to prevent a war today than to fight one next year. Whatever your views, images of burning Royal Navy warships and the mass burials of dead British Soldiers are still fresh in peoples minds, and the garrison in the Falkland Islands is not maintained on an operational footing for no reason. There is a very real threat of Argentine SF landing on the islands for example.

The Chinese and Russian influence in Argentina goes away beyond influencing the military; the Argentine Government cancelled the purchase of a large block of military equipment from China a few years back. Its related to trade, food and other exports, and Chinese fishing boats have been illegally active in the Argentine EEZ. China can't be trusted, and it may suit their long-term global strategy to see the UK and Argentina go at it again. China are a very real threat to global security.

As for Russia; Argentina has been to go-to place for people leaving that country since the outbreak of the war with Ukraine. In time, that will impact and influence the political scene in Argentina.

My views...thought through... rather than suggesting the Brits / Poms or whoever... are simply being spiteful / petty / need to wise up or whatever. Feel free to disagree; this is a discussion forum and we're all adults here.

[na grohmiti]

Again, way off topic, but it's not 1982 any more. Brazil is the centre of power in South America now, with Chile a close 2nd. Argentina does not get a look in.
Of course Argie special forces could land.
Then what? Argentina have no means to support a prolonged deployment, and outside of a minority in the cities, lack any public interest in claiming the islands.
Chinese fishing boats have illegally been operating all over the world, not just Argentinian EEZ. But then again, you need to know the definition of an EEZ to suggest what if anything Argentina could do to prevent it.
The rest of coastal South America has been re-equipping with former US, European and Australian naval vessels since the beginning of the 2000s, meanwhile Armada Argentina struggles to keep what it has afloat, let alone at sea.
The reality is Argentina can claim Mars, for all the difference it makes. The People of the Falkland islands have declared they wish to remain under a British Flag, the UN has affirmed their decision.

[spider]

For some reason I can't get the quote function to work, but in response to #405, that Brazil and Chile are the centre of power in South America, I'm going to disagree. Brazil yes, they always have been, but Argentina's GDP is ranked way ahead of Chile's in 2023. Argentina still wield significant power in the region, and at risk of repeating myself their history of political instability means that the UK government need to protect their interests in the South Atlantic from a country which is agitating against those interests. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that in a few years down the line, a hard-line Argentine government may attack the Falkland Islands again. That the UN have affirmed UK sovereignty over the islands wouldn't make a button of difference...see what's happening in Ukraine...a country illegally invaded by a member of the UN Security Council.

What if Argentine SF landed on the Islands...I'm not SF... but I guess they would conduct reconnaissance in depth, seek to understand the laydown of UK military assets, assess them for future strike / deny operations, that type of thing. Pretty standard stuff.

I'm quite familiar with the definition of an EEZ thanks, and I'm sure that the Chinese would love nothing more than to use the Argentines as a proxy to get access to the Falkland Islands EEZ.

[na grohmiti]

For some reason I can't get the quote function to work, but in response to #405, that Brazil and Chile are the centre of power in South America, I'm going to disagree. Brazil yes, they always have been, but Argentina's GDP is ranked way ahead of Chile's in 2023. Argentina still wield significant power in the region, and at risk of repeating myself their history of political instability means that the UK government need to protect their interests in the South Atlantic from a country which is agitating against those interests. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that in a few years down the line, a hard-line Argentine government may attack the Falkland Islands again. That the UN have affirmed UK sovereignty over the islands wouldn't make a button of difference...see what's happening in Ukraine...a country illegally invaded by a member of the UN Security Council.

What if Argentine SF landed on the Islands...I'm not SF... but I guess they would conduct reconnaissance in depth, seek to understand the laydown of UK military assets, assess them for future strike / deny operations, that type of thing. Pretty standard stuff.

I'm quite familiar with the definition of an EEZ thanks, and I'm sure that the Chinese would love nothing more than to use the Argentines as a proxy to get access to the Falkland Islands EEZ.

You seem to have missed my point about Argentine secret squirrels turning up on East Falkland. Its not a place you can sneak about on in the hopes of monitoring activity at Mt Pleasant. Locals would have anyone not native copped in seconds, not to mention the obvious arrival of a boat/plane load of men of military age lacking the ability to say the word "Johnny". Indeed your reply shows just how unrealistic the fears are.
As for chinese fishymen, getting slightly back to the topic, they have been creating havoc all over the world with their giant fleets, and they have no care for EEZ of anyone, or even to use an EEZ as some sort of Proxy. Its one of the main reasons Australia and NZ have decided they need more larger OPVs to patrol their EEZ.

Now, Thread split time anyone? Because the South Atlantic is a long long way from the Southern Ocean.