New Zealand Defence Force

[Anzac]

The decision to go with LM Canada for the ANZAC frigate upgrade is another "lower cost" option that seems to have gone wrong given the cost overruns and delays.

Running with the RAN program of updates would have meant that all costs would have been known with certainly up front (after 3 or 4 RAN ships had been updated), and possibly allowed for some of the work undertaken in NZ but managed out of Australia. It also would have spread the upgrades (and costs) across a number of projects, rather than a single one off effort.

I tend to agree. The original estimate for the LM Canada project was $376m as opposed to $421m for the Australian approach. When the contract was signed the cost of going with the Canadians was up to $446m. The Canadian upgrade pathway ended up costing $618m which when looking at how expensive it is to get anything done in Canada vessel wise it is not such a big surprise. I believe that going down the Australian pathway would have come in at $594m all up and of course would have been delivered earlier and had the potential to deliver something to local industry.

One thing favourable in the Canadian approach is that the vessels only gained 26 tonnes, which I gather was a concern at the time with the respect to the Australian vessels. The end result is pretty reasonable though. It retains good seakeeping, agility and speed.

[na grohmiti]

Is there any plan to follow Australia when the time comes to replace the ANZACs, with Hunter class derivative or (post refit) is this too far off?

[Anzac]

Is there any plan to follow Australia when the time comes to replace the ANZACs, with Hunter class derivative or (post refit) is this too far off?

Unlikely. Though a RNZN frigate will only be built at a yard in a UKUSA signatory nation. All the Type 26 variants though excellent ships are very expensive and in the case of the RCN and RAN very big plus finding a slot in the drumbeat would not be easy. The cheap and cheerful Type 31 offers nothing that the upgraded Anzac's offer and in some areas is far weaker will be hopelessly outclassed in the Indo-Pacific context post 2030. That really only leaves the Constellation Class as it falls in around the right price range, capability required in a post 2030 strategic environment and importantly the right drumbeat.

[Anzac]

The first RNZAF P-8A Poseidon aircraft took to the skies in the United States today, completing a test flight ahead of systems fitout. The aircraft is due to be delivered on December 13th which will be the 21st anniversary of the day of treachery when the then NZ Govt disbanded its air combat wing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNyx66HwYEw

[na grohmiti]

Love the paint scheme.

[Anzac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoMVLPsbmVc&t=185s

The first of the RNZAF P-8A Poseidons arrived this last week at Ohakea AFB. A local plane spotter managed to get some footage of its approach and landing at around the 6:30 minute mark up on YouTube. He also managed to get some other routine aircraft including a B757, a AW109LUH, a couple of T-6C's and KA-350's whilst waiting for the P-8's arrival.

[gaff85]

NZ get multiple P8's, paddy to do with 2 295's

[na grohmiti]

NZ upgrading its C130H to C130J, paddy won't even make an offer on the C130J it's neighbours are giving away

[EUFighter]

It seems we do share some things with NZ:

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2022/12/09/a-third-of-new-zealands-navy-ships-are-docked-over-lack-of-crew/

[Anzac]

It seems we do share some things with NZ:
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/20...-lack-of-crew/

It is the Patrol Fleet crews that are the main attrition concern because they were the ones thrashed the most with being baby sitters in the MIQ hotel system that ran for a couple of years during the initial Covid outbreaks. I cannot blame them for leaving because that was not what they signed up for. Since 2020 the Defence minister is also the Associate Health minister so what could go wrong.

[Jaque'ammer]

It is the Patrol Fleet crews that are the main attrition concern because they were the ones thrashed the most with being baby sitters in the MIQ hotel system that ran for a couple of years during the initial Covid outbreaks. I cannot blame them for leaving because that was not what they signed up for. Since 2020 the Defence minister is also the Associate Health minister so what could go wrong.

If the health portfolio in NZ is anything like the health portfolio in the UK or Ireland, that's a recipe for neglect

[Sparky42]

Something on the issues:

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2023/01/04/how-the-new-zealand-navy-plans-to-fix-its-sailor-and-ship-shortfalls/

[na grohmiti]

Interesting the author believes the acquisition of new ships contributed to the issues, without providing any reason for that belief. I would suggest the new ships are actually contributing to retention. People were getting tired of being posted to old ships where they spend most of their days trying to maintain a ship that should have been sent to breakers long before, when it came to HMNZS Endeavour, and the old Wellington & Canterbury.
Instead crews are operationally active all over the Pacific and beyond.

[DeV]

Could it be that the (generalisation) youth of today don’t really want to spend a significant part of their lives away from family, friends, home (that they are probably renting (even if landlord is the military) etc) ?

[na grohmiti]

Every military seems to be going through the same staffing issues, it seems.