UK to increase Defence Spending by largest since Cold War.

[Anzac]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...tfall-29015317

Was having a read of a reddit post on this. If privates are still on 16k they're getting close to getting half the wages of their Irish counterparts.

The Australian Defence Force basic recruit pay starts at $52,815 (£29,930 or €34,115) which is getting close to double the UK.

https://pay-conditions.defence.gov.a...2_20221121.pdf

[Anzac]

https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/uk-mods-radars-without-a-home-cost-120m/

The clown show that is UK defence procurement continues.

The Poms have only 3 Wedgies where as the RAAF have six.

[Sparky42]

https://www.airforce-technology.com/...ome-cost-120m/

The clown show that is UK defence procurement continues.

The Poms have only 3 Wedgies where as the RAAF have six.

There can’t be any doubt that cutting them is insane, between training, maintenance and domestic operations, would the RAF even be able to generate a sustained deployment of AWACS with only 3? With everything that’s happened in Europe in the last 2 years I would have thought that cut would be hastily reversed at this stage.

[na grohmiti]

https://www.airforce-technology.com/...ome-cost-120m/

The clown show that is UK defence procurement continues.

The Poms have only 3 Wedgies where as the RAAF have six.

Its OK though, they are still paying for 5.

[Anzac]

https://warontherocks.com/2023/06/flying-desks-not-planes-the-backlog-in-british-fast-jet-pilot-training/

The clown show that is RAF flight training continues.

Only 11 fast jet recruits had made it through to operational conversion for either Typhoons or F-35Bs that year, despite 43 slots being available for this final stage.

Information released by the Ministry of Defence under a Freedom of Information Act request around the same time reflected these delays, estimating a training time between initial training and operational conversion for fast jet pilot recruits at 77 months when it should take around 31 months, with similar delays for the multi-engine and rotary wing streams.

And the Irish Government, though they won't fully admit it as we know, is relying on these dickheads to provide airspace security in the years ahead?

[Sparky42]

https://warontherocks.com/2023/06/fl...ilot-training/

The clown show that is RAF flight training continues.

Only 11 fast jet recruits had made it through to operational conversion for either Typhoons or F-35Bs that year, despite 43 slots being available for this final stage.

Information released by the Ministry of Defence under a Freedom of Information Act request around the same time reflected these delays, estimating a training time between initial training and operational conversion for fast jet pilot recruits at 77 months when it should take around 31 months, with similar delays for the multi-engine and rotary wing streams.

And the Irish Government, though they won't fully admit it as we know, is relying on these dickheads to provide airspace security in the years ahead?

I do have to laugh when on some U.K. defence sites the topic of air patrols comes up, one of the go to comments is why doesn’t Ireland form a “joint squadron” with the U.K. and use the T1 Typhoons… If they can’t even manage to train their own pilots how in the name of god do they think they could fit us in? Meanwhile for all the “Global Britain” and Asia Pivot comments, the two Wave class RFA hulls are to be decommissioned and sold and Fort Victoria is becoming increasingly troublesome but is the only solid stores ship for the Carriers…

[Anzac]

The cunning plan to solve the shortage in the RAF fighter pilot pipeline is to cull all the Tranche 1's by 2025. Problem solved in the minds of the MoD as they will only have 160 jets to worry about.

Of course BAE are now saying that upgrading the Tranche 1's to Tranche 2 is now actually possible and if the MoD wants to hand over to BAE lots of money they can do it quite happily for them.

[na grohmiti]

From a country who sneakily relies on the UK to protect their skies and waters, we really need to pay attention to their current lack of capability in that regard, and their insistence on maintaining a global Blue Water posture, without a blue water fleet.
You had research ships doing anti narcotic patrols in the Caribbean, meanwhile an OPV is deployed to the Pacific, showing the flag with their 30mm main armament while visiting potential future Chinese forward bases. The message they have sent is "When the Chinese come, these people are unable to prevent them from doing so.
The RN destroyer fleet is in various stages of being up on blocks, the combat spearhead relies on the last remaining 1990s built frigates, while the replacements are being built at an artificially slow rate, due to lack of shipbuilding capacity.
They have paid for 5 Aewacs aircraft, are only taking delivery of 3, and have already disposed of the functioning aircraft they will replace. Just last week they grounded the C130J fleet.
One of the 2 new carriers is out of action already with serious mechanical issues, having never reached full operational availability.
The RFA can't get crew for their ships, the RAF don't have enough aircraft for their pilots...
Their new APC works fine unless you want to carry humans in it.
Their industry no longer has the capability to build large calibre gun barrels.

I haven't even mentioned brexit yet.

Our de-facto protector against the local bully, was feared long ago, but these days is a shadow of its former self, and while it still may have the muscle, definitely lacks the moves of a potential opponent.

[Sparky42]

To highlight this and the impact decades of choices have made this is fairly somber reading on the state of the RN:

https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2023/06/is-royal-navy-still-blue-water-navy.html

[Sparky42]

The defence paper seems to have been kicked back a little as the issues of funding current needs and future projects haven’t added up:

https://news.sky.com/story/updated-plan-on-size-and-strength-of-uk-armed-forces-delayed-12903953

[Flamingo]

Looks like the Admiral was answering the difficult questions...

[spider]

I guess the truth is in the contemporary security situation at present.

Ask the Ukrainian Armed Forces what they think of their UK Allies.

I really wouldn't read too much into what you read online.

[spider]

From a country who sneakily relies on the UK to protect their skies and waters, we really need to pay attention to their current lack of capability in that regard, and their insistence on maintaining a global Blue Water posture, without a blue water fleet.
You had research ships doing anti narcotic patrols in the Caribbean, meanwhile an OPV is deployed to the Pacific, showing the flag with their 30mm main armament while visiting potential future Chinese forward bases. The message they have sent is "When the Chinese come, these people are unable to prevent them from doing so.
The RN destroyer fleet is in various stages of being up on blocks, the combat spearhead relies on the last remaining 1990s built frigates, while the replacements are being built at an artificially slow rate, due to lack of shipbuilding capacity.
They have paid for 5 Aewacs aircraft, are only taking delivery of 3, and have already disposed of the functioning aircraft they will replace. Just last week they grounded the C130J fleet.
One of the 2 new carriers is out of action already with serious mechanical issues, having never reached full operational availability.
The RFA can't get crew for their ships, the RAF don't have enough aircraft for their pilots...
Their new APC works fine unless you want to carry humans in it.
Their industry no longer has the capability to build large calibre gun barrels.

I haven't even mentioned brexit yet.

Our de-facto protector against the local bully, was feared long ago, but these days is a shadow of its former self, and while it still may have the muscle, definitely lacks the moves of a potential opponent.

I'll come back at you on the points you've raised...

Research Ships doing anti-narcotic patrols...what would you have used...an ASW Frigate? A T45? The RN have now forward-based an OPV to that region.

The Pacific...The RN recently deployed a carrier battle group including an SSN into that region. X2 OPV's make good sense for a standing presence. What would you suggest by way of a more 'committed' presence?

The RN are currently in the process of building / preparing to build three separate classes of Frigates...whilst the T45 are on a rolling mid-life upgrade programme which includes sorting out their power issues. I'm not RN, but I think thats what happens with complex warships.

The Wedgetail fleet will almost certainly be expanded...as will the A400 fleet. C-130 was past its sell-by date. I spoke to an RAF guy recently who told me that towards the end they only had three C-130 airframes online at any given time. Not that great.

HMS POW will be back in service this autumn, and is scheduled to deploy to the US then.

I'll give you the RFA thing...thats a Merchant Navy issue, and largely pay related. I'm not sure about the RAF not having enough pilots for their aircraft, I can merely observe that they are simultaneously maintaining ops in the UK, the Falklands, Middle East and the Baltics. As well as continuously supporting global exercises and maintaining a world-leading aerobatic display team. As well as meeting their individual pilot training commitments (and I'm no RAF fan-boy).

I'll say, with some confidence, that AJAX (I assume thats what you are referring too; it isn't an APC its an armoured RECCE asset) will be in the BA ORBAT in the next 4-5 years, and when it is, it'll be a game changer for battlefield ISTAR.

That the UK are currently unable to currently manufacture large calibre gun barrels is a moot point; if the UK Government identifies a need to do so, they'll likely chuck some money at re-generating that capability...so I'm not sure why you raise that as a concern?

BREXIT...it happened...the worlds still turning...get over it.

[na grohmiti]

I'll come back at you on the points you've raised...

Research Ships doing anti-narcotic patrols...what would you have used...an ASW Frigate? A T45? The RN have now forward-based an OPV to that region.

The Pacific...The RN recently deployed a carrier battle group including an SSN into that region. X2 OPV's make good sense for a standing presence. What would you suggest by way of a more 'committed' presence?

The RN are currently in the process of building / preparing to build three separate classes of Frigates...whilst the T45 are on a rolling mid-life upgrade programme which includes sorting out their power issues. I'm not RN, but I think thats what happens with complex warships.

The Wedgetail fleet will almost certainly be expanded...as will the A400 fleet. C-130 was past its sell-by date. I spoke to an RAF guy recently who told me that towards the end they only had three C-130 airframes online at any given time. Not that great.

HMS POW will be back in service this autumn, and is scheduled to deploy to the US then.

I'll give you the RFA thing...thats a Merchant Navy issue, and largely pay related. I'm not sure about the RAF not having enough pilots for their aircraft, I can merely observe that they are simultaneously maintaining ops in the UK, the Falklands, Middle East and the Baltics. As well as continuously supporting global exercises and maintaining a world-leading aerobatic display team. As well as meeting their individual pilot training commitments (and I'm no RAF fan-boy).

I'll say, with some confidence, that AJAX (I assume thats what you are referring too; it isn't an APC its an armoured RECCE asset) will be in the BA ORBAT in the next 4-5 years, and when it is, it'll be a game changer for battlefield ISTAR.

That the UK are currently unable to currently manufacture large calibre gun barrels is a moot point; if the UK Government identifies a need to do so, they'll likely chuck some money at re-generating that capability...so I'm not sure why you raise that as a concern?

BREXIT...it happened...the worlds still turning...get over it.

A frigate would have been more useful, or an OPV like the Duch use in the same region, but the RN has no frigates to spare, and its opvs are off showing the flag on the opposite side of the world doing a job traditionally done by a frigate.

Building/preparing are not assets. A new government or even another go at scottish independence could see the whole thing canceled. At present you have 1 new incomplete frigate hull, and another in 2 halves. You can't count them no more than Ireland can't count the MRV or the Gripens it hasn't ordered.

Almost certainly. Is that not a contradiction in terms? Fact is there were 5 Wedgetails ordered, then the order was reduced to 3. Air Chief Marshall says the order MAY increase to 5. It was the collective British defence media that were wailing about the loss of the C130J. Atlas is a Fine aircraft and should serve the RAF well. It has demonstrated its capability since first introduction just 10 years ago.

2 is 1. 1 is none.

Just last week the RN are saying they too are struggling to recruit and retain crew. Is this a lie?

Ajax is a family of vehicles, of which one, Ares is the APC variant.

Again, when the British defence press draw attention to a perceived industrial weakness, I mention it.

[spider]

A frigate would have been more useful, or an OPV like the Duch use in the same region, but the RN has no frigates to spare, and its opvs are off showing the flag on the opposite side of the world doing a job traditionally done by a frigate.

Building/preparing are not assets. A new government or even another go at scottish independence could see the whole thing canceled. At present you have 1 new incomplete frigate hull, and another in 2 halves. You can't count them no more than Ireland can't count the MRV or the Gripens it hasn't ordered.

Almost certainly. Is that not a contradiction in terms? Fact is there were 5 Wedgetails ordered, then the order was reduced to 3. Air Chief Marshall says the order MAY increase to 5. It was the collective British defence media that were wailing about the loss of the C130J. Atlas is a Fine aircraft and should serve the RAF well. It has demonstrated its capability since first introduction just 10 years ago.

2 is 1. 1 is none.

Just last week the RN are saying they too are struggling to recruit and retain crew. Is this a lie?

Ajax is a family of vehicles, of which one, Ares is the APC variant.

Again, when the British defence press draw attention to a perceived industrial weakness, I mention it.

Well the RN have forward based an OPV...HMS Medway in that region since 2020. When that ship went earlier this year south to cover the Falkland Islands Guardship (HMS Forth) for her planned maintenance period the Caribbean tasking was covered by HMS Dauntless. Very useful ships, for ships that the RN never wanted (apparently).

The chances of Scottish independence in my lifetime are slim to none, and the SNP are in a mess. In fact Scotland, under the SNP is in a mess. The Scottish economy needs those shipbuilding jobs, and the tens of millions facilities like Faslane and Lossiemouth pour into the local economy. Scottish voters aren't stupid. Don't think that a vote for the SNP means a desire for Scottish independence. Comparing the currently under construction City Class and Inspiration Class with an aspiration for the Irish Navy and Irish Aer Corps to acquire an MRV and fast jets is invalid. The current build of warships for the RN is part of a national shipbuilding strategy and a key part of the NATO commitment to security in the North Atlantic. Would the RN like to see those hulls in the water sooner, yes, of course they would, but the T23 / 45 availability rate is quite good and they will have to manage with what they have for the next few years. UK shipbuilding is pretty much at capacity.

The RAF are masters at playing the procurement game. Remind me if I'm proven wrong, but in my opinion the RAF will end up with five Wedgetails. The British Defence media can bemoan the loss of C-130 all they like; the fact is that in the end the RAF were only able to put three of the things in the air at any given time. They were no longer cost effective. An RAF Warrant Officer Mover of 30+ years service told me that a couple of months ago. The A-400 continues to evolve; I read something somewhere where they'd flown one from Brize Norton to the Pacific and refuelled it in flight. Another milestone. I first flew in a Hercules when I was 17; sorry to see them go but things move on.

And in a couple of months 2 carriers will be 2 operational carriers again...

We weren't talking about RN crewing issues...either of us. You mentioned the RFA and I agreed with you. I know a couple of soldiers who looked at it as an alternative to the Army, but the pay offer isn't great.

Ares is not only an APC, there are on order a few dozen Ares to fulfil an overwatch capability for reconnaissance formations.

Anyway, an interesting debate, I'm in the British Army and proud of that; maybe my naivety gets the better of me at times but again and again I've seen our Armed Forces deliver their mission often against the odds. Theres a lot of negativity in the UK Defence Media, after all thats what sells stories and stirs debate, but if my time has taught me anything its that capabilities and equipment evolve / expand / contract in line with the geopolitical landscape and with evolving capabilities. Sometimes thats painful. Just my opinion, but I believe the war in Ukraine will cause a huge shake-up in NATO doctrine and in the shape of how land forces operate and fight for at least a generation.