Norway drops NH-90

[gaff85]

I read that Norway like Australia has dropped the NH-90 For SeaHawks as there not in the EU they presumably went direct to the manf and bypassed the EU required tender policy, sometimes the EU can be a hindrance

[Sparky42]

I read that Norway like Australia has dropped the NH-90 For SeaHawks as there not in the EU they presumably went direct to the manf and bypassed the EU required tender policy, sometimes the EU can be a hindrance

They are still members of the EEA and have to abide by EU laws and regulations anyway, think it’s more that the area of defence has always had more leeway than other sectors.

[Anzac]

They are still members of the EEA and have to abide by EU laws and regulations anyway, think it’s more that the area of defence has always had more leeway than other sectors.

This is I understand is the opt out clause when it comes to Defence procurement of EEA members.

Article 346(1)(b) TFEU
“(b) Any Member State may take such measures as it considers necessary for the production of the essential interests of its security which are connected with the production of or trade in arms, munitions or war material; such measures shall not adversely affect the conditions of competition in the internal market regarding products which are not intended for specifically military purposes.”

[EUFighter]

This is I understand is the opt out clause when it comes to Defence procurement of EEA members.

Article 346(1)(b) TFEU
“(b) Any Member State may take such measures as it considers necessary for the production of the essential interests of its security which are connected with the production of or trade in arms, munitions or war material; such measures shall not adversely affect the conditions of competition in the internal market regarding products which are not intended for specifically military purposes.”

There has always been the "get out of jail" card. If it is military and essential for defence you can buy whatever you want. The biggest blockers are not the EU themselves but the people in the different countries who are tasked with the purchases.

With the NH90, it was always an issue with Norway and that they jump to the MH60R is not a surprise.

[na grohmiti]

When you think all the Countries who went with the NH90, when for a similar price they could have had the EH101, and had a lot more capability.

[Anzac]

A close call as ADF NH90 ditches in sea during CT exercise.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-23/australian-defence-force-helicopter-incident-jervis-bay/102132762

[EUFighter]

A close call as ADF NH90 ditches in sea during CT exercise.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-23/australian-defence-force-helicopter-incident-jervis-bay/102132762

For all the bad press the NH-90 comes in for it is interesting how well the emergency systems worked and that the aircraft did not roll over and sink! Every aircraft type will suffer a ditching just look at the AS332.

Seeing that we have now developed a little habit of taking certain surplus equipment maybe the soon to be phased out fleet of MRH-90 helicopters could find a new home by us??? Is NZ also planning to get rid of theirs?

[na grohmiti]

It didn't sink because it ditched in shallow water. It would be normal for any helicopter, with a high c/g to turn turtle on ditching in deep water. Crews train for that.
when you see how little use NZ is getting from theirs (600 hrs ) it.is clear they would be useless for us.

[EUFighter]

It didn't sink because it ditched in shallow water. It would be normal for any helicopter, with a high c/g to turn turtle on ditching in deep water. Crews train for that.
when you see how little use NZ is getting from theirs (600 hrs ) it.is clear they would be useless for us.

600hr for want? time? number of aircraft?

One of the NZ reached the 2000hr mark back in 2021 which is around 10 years after being delivered. That would mean it has averaged 200hr per year which for a military aircraft is good going. What hours do the AW139s have?

The smart thing NZ did was buy an extra aircraft for spares. While this may seem a bad employment of resources as one of the major issue with the NH90 is spares availability this looks not so stupid. In fact most issue around availability of most helicopters at the moment is around spares. And a look at the rate of all helicopters in French service show the NH90 as one of the better performers even against aircraft which should by now be long matured!

[DeV]

600hr for want? time? number of aircraft?

One of the NZ reached the 2000hr mark back in 2021 which is around 10 years after being delivered. That would mean it has averaged 200hr per year which for a military aircraft is good going. What hours do the AW139s have?

The smart thing NZ did was buy an extra aircraft for spares. While this may seem a bad employment of resources as one of the major issue with the NH90 is spares availability this looks not so stupid. In fact most issue around availability of most helicopters at the moment is around spares. And a look at the rate of all helicopters in French service show the NH90 as one of the better performers even against aircraft which should by now be long matured!

Is 600 hours what they need or is demand higher?

[na grohmiti]

They only get 200 hours p.a out of each airframe, when even the Huey's at 50 years old could double that at a fraction of the cost. They cost a fortune in time and money to keep serviceable. OEM support is way behind what LM or Leonardo do. A great aircraft to operate out of your home air base with all the support set up there. But the whole point that kinda was never really thought through about when designing a military helicopter is that it is going to have to be used in an austere environment and be reliable, tough and able to be kept flying when deployed in a combat environment a long way from home, which could be maritime, desert, polar, tropical. I don't think the NH90 is quite enough convincing with that regard.

But they look really good though which must count for something and now with these young ladies flying them probably look even better.

From Anzac on another thread.

[Anzac]

An output of 1700 hours from the total fleet of 8 NH90's. Around 500 hours as a fleet less than was originally expected when ordered in 2006 and finally FOC 8 years later. The AW109 though is able to meet the 1500 hours from the fleet of just five. The reason why they fly so seldom (compared to the Huey the greatest helicopter ever made ) is that the cost of keeping them airborne.

[EUFighter]

An output of 1700 hours from the total fleet of 8 NH90's. Around 500 hours as a fleet less than was originally expected when ordered in 2006 and finally FOC 8 years later. The AW109 though is able to meet the 1500 hours from the fleet of just five. The reason why they fly so seldom (compared to the Huey the greatest helicopter ever made ) is that the cost of keeping them airborne.

Comparing the NH90 to the Huey is like comparing chalk with cheese. The UH1 benefited from coming into service during the Vietnam War, the army needed them so they were bought in massive numbers which had an impact on costs etc. But remember nearly half of the 7000 Hueys deployed to Vietnam were lost. That is why their replacements are bigger and heavier which has an impact on cost.

	UH1D Huey	NH90 TTH
MTOW (kg)	4100	10600
Power (kW)	820	3690
Speed (kmph)	204	300
Range (km)	511	800
Ceiling (m)	3800	6000

Is the increased speed, range and ceiling worth the extra money, that is the question. But the extra safety surely is.

And then there is the aircraft which is often the replacement the S70 family. The UH60M is a simpler aircraft, it does not normally as standard have many of the features in a NH90 which is more towards a HH60G in terms of standard systems. Do you need a fly-by-wire system? an advanced FLIR, weather radar, TopOwl helmets etc...... That are all extras whcih Sweden did not have on their UH60Ms. But if you do not need it then of course that is a cost that could be avoided.

The NH90 is by far not a perfect helicopter and NHI does not help but is it as bad as people make out. Qatar in their first year of operations had a 80% availability rate so maybe things are starting to change. Just too late for some customers, now four that will divest from the type.

[Anzac]

The Huey is the still the greatest and yes maybe not the best but still the greatest. What other helicopter can you hear that distinct Whocka Whocka beat in the distance and you immediately get the Rolling Stones Paint it Black in your head.

They built over 10000 of them and in Vietnam they flew 11 million hours combat flight time more than any other aircraft in the history of warfare.

[na grohmiti]

How many US Army Huey were lost to enemy fire as opposed to mechanical failure/accidents? It was reported to have been a sturdy aircraft, given it was one of the first TP Helis in frontline service. Most of its Vietnam era pilots would have trained on piston powered helis.