From historical Dail Debates I found this little gem :
this is the last of the debate on the 1954 Defence Act. Captain Cowan has the floor. Also speaking is General MacEoin and Oscar Traynor, the Minister for Defence. We pick up the story on the last amendment of all ....
[ Dated 25 March 1954 ]
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We are on the last amendment and this is an old topic. The amendment is to substitute the rank of major for the [239] rank of commandant. I know that in making a recommendation such as this I would be very strongly opposed by the Minister and I am not too sure whether Deputy General MacEoin would be in opposition or not. Since the Defence Forces were established we have had alterations from time to time in ranks. In the armies of other countries there are well-defined and well-known ranks of officers. As far as our N.C.O.s and men are concerned their ranks and the ranks of the Navy follow the generally-accepted lines in regard to title and if one of our soldiers, a corporal, a sergeant, a company-sergeant or a sergeant-major meets a person of the same status in another army, he finds they have the same rank and there is not very much trouble about it. Similarly in regard to our officer ranks, we have general, lieutenant-general, major-general; we have colonel, lieutenant-colonel, captain, lieutenant, second-lieutenant and these follow the generally-accepted ranks hierarchy in all other armies. We had in the Army here the rank of major and it was a rank senior to that of commandant. It was found by experience that to hold the rank of major was considered to be in international gatherings of military officers just a step above captain. And to that extent our officers who travelled abroad and met officers of other armies, who have been to schools and instruction in military colleges—in all of which, as we all know, they represented this country and our Army with the greatest distinction—but found that the rank of major as superior to commandant left them in an embarrassing position because they were considered to be a rank junior to what, in fact, they were. Very wisely—I think it was at the instance of the present Minister—the rank of major was abolished and the rank of lieutenant-colonel substituted. That aspect of it has been put right.
240
In regard to the rank of commandant—commandant in actual fact is not a rank. It is not what is generally known as a recognised rank. It is a title or appointment and you may have, as you would have, say, a general a commandant of a military [240] college, or a colonel commandant of a military college or a captain a camp commandant, or a lieutenant-colonel as a camp commandant. The word is more related to position or appointment than it is to rank. The position of commandant may be occupied by a person of any rank depending on what the particular position is and the rank that is required or prescribed for it. In international gatherings of officers this rank of commandant that we have is not understood. It is not understood that it is the equivalent of the rank of major in armies with whose officers our officers may be in contact for one reason or another, and to that extent it seems to me to be desirable that we should avail of this opportunity of getting our ranks into those internationally recognised. We have over the last 30 years eliminated all other distinctions there were but we have left this old position there. It has been left there because of its association with what one may term the Army that achieved our freedom. The rank of commandant, as we know it, means a good deal particularly to officers of the I.R.A. in the past, and there has been a desire, I think, to retain that particular rank of commandant for that purpose. But, where we have an internationally recognised hierarchy of ranks, I think it is just as well that we should follow the generally accepted trend, and that, in regard to the rank of commandant, we should abolish it as a rank and substitute for it the rank of major, because that is the internationally recognised rank that is equivalent to our rank of commandant. If this rank of commandant was peculiar to us because of our language, because it had a significance as a well-recognised and accepted Irish name, and if we use that Irish title or name as equivalent to the rank of major in another country, it would possibly be all right, but commandant is an English word which represents an appointment rather than a rank. It does not seem to fit in. I am availing of the opportunity of this Act going through to recommend very strongly to the Dáil that we remove commandant as a rank and substitute for it the rank of major.
G
this is the last of the debate on the 1954 Defence Act. Captain Cowan has the floor. Also speaking is General MacEoin and Oscar Traynor, the Minister for Defence. We pick up the story on the last amendment of all ....
[ Dated 25 March 1954 ]
----
We are on the last amendment and this is an old topic. The amendment is to substitute the rank of major for the [239] rank of commandant. I know that in making a recommendation such as this I would be very strongly opposed by the Minister and I am not too sure whether Deputy General MacEoin would be in opposition or not. Since the Defence Forces were established we have had alterations from time to time in ranks. In the armies of other countries there are well-defined and well-known ranks of officers. As far as our N.C.O.s and men are concerned their ranks and the ranks of the Navy follow the generally-accepted lines in regard to title and if one of our soldiers, a corporal, a sergeant, a company-sergeant or a sergeant-major meets a person of the same status in another army, he finds they have the same rank and there is not very much trouble about it. Similarly in regard to our officer ranks, we have general, lieutenant-general, major-general; we have colonel, lieutenant-colonel, captain, lieutenant, second-lieutenant and these follow the generally-accepted ranks hierarchy in all other armies. We had in the Army here the rank of major and it was a rank senior to that of commandant. It was found by experience that to hold the rank of major was considered to be in international gatherings of military officers just a step above captain. And to that extent our officers who travelled abroad and met officers of other armies, who have been to schools and instruction in military colleges—in all of which, as we all know, they represented this country and our Army with the greatest distinction—but found that the rank of major as superior to commandant left them in an embarrassing position because they were considered to be a rank junior to what, in fact, they were. Very wisely—I think it was at the instance of the present Minister—the rank of major was abolished and the rank of lieutenant-colonel substituted. That aspect of it has been put right.
240
In regard to the rank of commandant—commandant in actual fact is not a rank. It is not what is generally known as a recognised rank. It is a title or appointment and you may have, as you would have, say, a general a commandant of a military [240] college, or a colonel commandant of a military college or a captain a camp commandant, or a lieutenant-colonel as a camp commandant. The word is more related to position or appointment than it is to rank. The position of commandant may be occupied by a person of any rank depending on what the particular position is and the rank that is required or prescribed for it. In international gatherings of officers this rank of commandant that we have is not understood. It is not understood that it is the equivalent of the rank of major in armies with whose officers our officers may be in contact for one reason or another, and to that extent it seems to me to be desirable that we should avail of this opportunity of getting our ranks into those internationally recognised. We have over the last 30 years eliminated all other distinctions there were but we have left this old position there. It has been left there because of its association with what one may term the Army that achieved our freedom. The rank of commandant, as we know it, means a good deal particularly to officers of the I.R.A. in the past, and there has been a desire, I think, to retain that particular rank of commandant for that purpose. But, where we have an internationally recognised hierarchy of ranks, I think it is just as well that we should follow the generally accepted trend, and that, in regard to the rank of commandant, we should abolish it as a rank and substitute for it the rank of major, because that is the internationally recognised rank that is equivalent to our rank of commandant. If this rank of commandant was peculiar to us because of our language, because it had a significance as a well-recognised and accepted Irish name, and if we use that Irish title or name as equivalent to the rank of major in another country, it would possibly be all right, but commandant is an English word which represents an appointment rather than a rank. It does not seem to fit in. I am availing of the opportunity of this Act going through to recommend very strongly to the Dáil that we remove commandant as a rank and substitute for it the rank of major.
G
Comment