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  • Rates of Pay for the Irish Military, dated to 1940 for service in "The Emergency".

    Hallo Members,

    during my research work for my book, I came across this, its in connection with the

    Irish Military, who were in service during "THE EMERGENCY" as World War Two was known

    in the Republic of Ireland.

    I have not opened the envelope which contains this research in 5 years, as its was the WW2 period, but contained some reprints in the 1940 newspaper of incidents that happened to Mayo men in service of the British Army in World War 1, which is in context with my book (work in progress) about the British Military circa 1750 - 1922. in the West of Ireland.


    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1940's ARMY ALLOWANCES SCALE.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


    Particulars Of Pay Of Men Serving In The National Forces.The following particulars are contained in a pamphlet issued by the Department of Defence regarding the pay and allowances of the Defence Forces:-

    PAY - OFFICERS.

    OFFICERS OF THE GENERAL RESERVE OF OFFICERS WHEN ON PERMANENT SERVICE:

    An Officer of the General Reserve of Officers when on permanent service id granted, from the date of his reporting for duty to the date of termination of such duty, the rate of pay of which he was in receipt immediately prior to his retirement from the Permanent Force. The rates of pay for Officers of the Permanent Force are as follows:-

    Rank.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Daily Rates of Pay. (In Pounds, Shillings and Pence.)

    Colonel on appointment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 8 0
    Colonel after two years service in the rank . . . . 1 10 0
    Colonel after five years service in the rank . . . . 1 12 0

    Major on appointment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 0
    Major after two years service in the rank . . . . 1 6 0
    Major after five years service in the rank . . . . . 1 8 0

    Commandant on appointment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0 0
    Commandant after two years service in the rank . . . 1 8 0
    Commandant after five years service in the rank . . 1 4 0

    Captain on appointment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 14 0
    Captain after two years service in the rank . . . . . 0 16 0
    Captain after five years service in the rank. . . . . . 0 18 0

    Lieutenant on appointment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 10 0
    Lieutenant after two years service in the rank . . . . 0 12 0
    Lieutenant after five years service in the rank . . . . 0 14 0

    Second-Lieutenant on appointment. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 0
    Second-Lieutenant after two years service in the rank 0 9 0
    Second-Lieutenant after five years service in the ranks. 0 10 0

    OFFICERS OF THE RESERVE - THE VOLUNTEER FORCE WHEN ON PERMANENT SERVICE.

    Rank.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Daily Rates of Pay. (In Pounds, Shillings and Pence.)

    Second-Lieutenants.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 0
    Lieutenants. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 10 0
    Captain. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 14 0

    Extra Pay of the Professional Soldier.

    In addition to the daily rates of pay, Medical Officers, Dental and Veterinary officers, Legal, Engineer, Ordnance and Signal Officers appointed to commissioned rank on or subsequent to the 1st of December 1938, may be paid the following Schedule.

    Additional Pay per Annum:

    Medical Officers :-
    Second-Lieutenants . . . . . . . . . 150 Pounds.
    Lieutenant to Colonel . . . . . . . . 120 Pounds.

    Dental and Veterinary Officers :-

    Second Lieutenants . . . . . . . . . 125 Pounds.
    Lieutenant to Colonel . . . . . . . . 120 Pounds.

    Legal, Engineer, Ordnance and Signal Officers:-
    Second Lieutenants . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 Pounds.
    Lieutenant to Colonel. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80 Pounds.

    ALLOWANCES - OFFICERS.

    Lodging, Fuel and Light Allowances:-

    Married Officers.

    A Married Officer of the Permanent Forces or a Married Officer of the Reserve of Officers on permanent service who is not provided with married quarters shall be entitled to lodging, fuel and light allowance at the rate of 7/- a day provided that in the case of officers of the Reserve of Officers, marriage took place before the 1st of July, 1940.

    Lodging, Fuel and Light Allowances :-

    Widower Officers.

    Lodging, Fuel and Light allowances at the rate of 7/- a day may be issued to widower officers, with family, residing out of barracks, with permission, until the youngest boy has reached the age of 18 years and the youngest girl has reached the age of 21 years, provided that in the case of widower officers of the Reserve of Officers on permanent service the marriage took place before the 1st of July, 1940.

    PAY - NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICERS AND PRIVATES.


    PAY OF NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICERS - The Permanent Force.

    The Reserve of Men Classes "A" and "B" and the Reserve, the Volunteer Force:-

    Rank. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Rates per diem. (In Shillings and Pence).

    Sergeant-Major . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6.
    Battalion Quartermaster Sergeant . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 6.
    Company Sergeant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 0.
    Company Quartermaster Sergeant . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6.
    Sergeant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 0.
    Corporal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 0.


    PAY OF PRIVATES :- The Permanent Force and The Reserve of Men, Classes "A" and "B".

    Rank. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Rates per diem. (In Shillings and Pence).

    Private, Class I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 6.

    Private, Class I I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3.

    Private, Class I I I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0.

    Privates who enlisted in the Forces prior to the 14th October, 1926 receive 6d. per diem in addition to the above rates.

    PAY OF PRIVATES:- The Reserve - The Volunteer Force:-

    Rank. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Rates per diem. (In Shillings and Pence).

    Private, Class I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3.

    Privates, Classes I I, I I I, and I V. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0

    Note:- Men enlisting in the Permanent Force for the duration of the present emergency who have previous military experience may be graded as Privates Class I I., and paid at the rate of 2/3d. a day from the date of enlistment.

    ADDITIONAL PAY.

    Additional pay at varying rates may be granted to non-commissioned officers and men of the Permanent Force, The Volunteer Force, employed as clerks, tradesmen. etc,. according to their qualifications.

    MARRIAGE AND CHILDREN'S ALLOWANCES.

    Payable to married and widower non-commissioned officers and men of the Permanents Force (including men enlisted for the duration of the present emergency) and to married and widower non-commissioned officers and men of the Reserve of Men Classes "A" and "B" and The Reserve - The Volunteer Force on permanent service, provided that in all cases marriage took place before the 1st of July, 1940.

    Allowances - - - - - - - -- - - - - Rates per diem. (In Shillings and Pence).

    Wife's Allowance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0.
    One Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0.
    Two Children . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 6.
    Three Children . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 9.
    Four Children . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0.
    For each additional Child . . . . . . . . . 0 3.

    RATION ALLOWANCES.

    Officers and Men are entitled to the free issue of rations. Where rations are not issued, Ration Allowance may be paid at rates which vary from time to time. The daily rate of Ration Allowances at present payable are as follows:-

    Officers 2/-

    N.C.O.'s and Men - 1/5d or 1/8d according to circumstances.

    I hope you find it interesting, all to often I have tended to focus on the Medals & Militaria, but this gives an insight into how much real "Brass" the soldier was getting for his service.

    Connaught Stranger

  • #2
    Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
    Hallo Members,

    during my research work for my book, I came across this, its in connection with the

    Irish Military, who were in service during "THE EMERGENCY" as World War Two was known

    in the Republic of Ireland.

    I have not opened the envelope which contains this research in 5 years, as its was the WW2 period, but contained some reprints in the 1940 newspaper of incidents that happened to Mayo men in service of the British Army in World War 1, which is in context with my book (work in progress) about the British Military circa 1750 - 1922. in the West of Ireland.


    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1940's ARMY ALLOWANCES SCALE.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


    Particulars Of Pay Of Men Serving In The National Forces.The following particulars are contained in a pamphlet issued by the Department of Defence regarding the pay and allowances of the Defence Forces:-

    PAY - OFFICERS.

    OFFICERS OF THE GENERAL RESERVE OF OFFICERS WHEN ON PERMANENT SERVICE:

    An Officer of the General Reserve of Officers when on permanent service id granted, from the date of his reporting for duty to the date of termination of such duty, the rate of pay of which he was in receipt immediately prior to his retirement from the Permanent Force. The rates of pay for Officers of the Permanent Force are as follows:-

    Rank.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Daily Rates of Pay. (In Pounds, Shillings and Pence.)

    Colonel on appointment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 8 0
    Colonel after two years service in the rank . . . . 1 10 0
    Colonel after five years service in the rank . . . . 1 12 0

    Major on appointment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 0
    Major after two years service in the rank . . . . 1 6 0
    Major after five years service in the rank . . . . . 1 8 0

    Commandant on appointment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0 0
    Commandant after two years service in the rank . . . 1 8 0
    Commandant after five years service in the rank . . 1 4 0

    Captain on appointment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 14 0
    Captain after two years service in the rank . . . . . 0 16 0
    Captain after five years service in the rank. . . . . . 0 18 0

    Lieutenant on appointment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 10 0
    Lieutenant after two years service in the rank . . . . 0 12 0
    Lieutenant after five years service in the rank . . . . 0 14 0

    Second-Lieutenant on appointment. . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 0
    Second-Lieutenant after two years service in the rank 0 9 0
    Second-Lieutenant after five years service in the ranks. 0 10 0

    OFFICERS OF THE RESERVE - THE VOLUNTEER FORCE WHEN ON PERMANENT SERVICE.

    Rank.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Daily Rates of Pay. (In Pounds, Shillings and Pence.)

    Second-Lieutenants.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 0
    Lieutenants. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 10 0
    Captain. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 14 0

    Extra Pay of the Professional Soldier.

    In addition to the daily rates of pay, Medical Officers, Dental and Veterinary officers, Legal, Engineer, Ordnance and Signal Officers appointed to commissioned rank on or subsequent to the 1st of December 1938, may be paid the following Schedule.

    Additional Pay per Annum:

    Medical Officers :-
    Second-Lieutenants . . . . . . . . . 150 Pounds.
    Lieutenant to Colonel . . . . . . . . 120 Pounds.

    Dental and Veterinary Officers :-

    Second Lieutenants . . . . . . . . . 125 Pounds.
    Lieutenant to Colonel . . . . . . . . 120 Pounds.

    Legal, Engineer, Ordnance and Signal Officers:-
    Second Lieutenants . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 Pounds.
    Lieutenant to Colonel. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80 Pounds.

    ALLOWANCES - OFFICERS.

    Lodging, Fuel and Light Allowances:-

    Married Officers.

    A Married Officer of the Permanent Forces or a Married Officer of the Reserve of Officers on permanent service who is not provided with married quarters shall be entitled to lodging, fuel and light allowance at the rate of 7/- a day provided that in the case of officers of the Reserve of Officers, marriage took place before the 1st of July, 1940.

    Lodging, Fuel and Light Allowances :-

    Widower Officers.

    Lodging, Fuel and Light allowances at the rate of 7/- a day may be issued to widower officers, with family, residing out of barracks, with permission, until the youngest boy has reached the age of 18 years and the youngest girl has reached the age of 21 years, provided that in the case of widower officers of the Reserve of Officers on permanent service the marriage took place before the 1st of July, 1940.

    PAY - NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICERS AND PRIVATES.


    PAY OF NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICERS - The Permanent Force.

    The Reserve of Men Classes "A" and "B" and the Reserve, the Volunteer Force:-

    Rank. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Rates per diem. (In Shillings and Pence).

    Sergeant-Major . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6.
    Battalion Quartermaster Sergeant . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 6.
    Company Sergeant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 0.
    Company Quartermaster Sergeant . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6.
    Sergeant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 0.
    Corporal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 0.


    PAY OF PRIVATES :- The Permanent Force and The Reserve of Men, Classes "A" and "B".

    Rank. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Rates per diem. (In Shillings and Pence).

    Private, Class I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 6.

    Private, Class I I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3.

    Private, Class I I I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0.

    Privates who enlisted in the Forces prior to the 14th October, 1926 receive 6d. per diem in addition to the above rates.

    PAY OF PRIVATES:- The Reserve - The Volunteer Force:-

    Rank. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Rates per diem. (In Shillings and Pence).

    Private, Class I . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3.

    Privates, Classes I I, I I I, and I V. . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0

    Note:- Men enlisting in the Permanent Force for the duration of the present emergency who have previous military experience may be graded as Privates Class I I., and paid at the rate of 2/3d. a day from the date of enlistment.

    ADDITIONAL PAY.

    Additional pay at varying rates may be granted to non-commissioned officers and men of the Permanent Force, The Volunteer Force, employed as clerks, tradesmen. etc,. according to their qualifications.

    MARRIAGE AND CHILDREN'S ALLOWANCES.

    Payable to married and widower non-commissioned officers and men of the Permanents Force (including men enlisted for the duration of the present emergency) and to married and widower non-commissioned officers and men of the Reserve of Men Classes "A" and "B" and The Reserve - The Volunteer Force on permanent service, provided that in all cases marriage took place before the 1st of July, 1940.

    Allowances - - - - - - - -- - - - - Rates per diem. (In Shillings and Pence).

    Wife's Allowance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0.
    One Child . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0.
    Two Children . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 6.
    Three Children . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 9.
    Four Children . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 0.
    For each additional Child . . . . . . . . . 0 3.

    RATION ALLOWANCES.

    Officers and Men are entitled to the free issue of rations. Where rations are not issued, Ration Allowance may be paid at rates which vary from time to time. The daily rate of Ration Allowances at present payable are as follows:-

    Officers 2/-

    N.C.O.'s and Men - 1/5d or 1/8d according to circumstances.

    I hope you find it interesting, all to often I have tended to focus on the Medals & Militaria, but this gives an insight into how much real "Brass" the soldier was getting for his service.

    Connaught Stranger
    :confused: to think how close we came to invasion and taking on the might of the waffen ss ,, has the question being ever discussed seriousely how would we have done or would we have resorted to guerilla warfare,,

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by golden rivet View Post
      :confused: to think how close we came to invasion and taking on the might of the waffen ss ,, has the question being ever discussed seriousely how would we have done or would we have resorted to guerilla warfare,,
      Hallo golden Rivet

      Interesting question, realistically, looking at the size of Ireland, there would have been nowhere to run and hide for long, considering the methods of the Waffen S.S. and the German Military in general. They would have had the edge in equipment and tactics, developed by rolling into Poland, Holland, Belgium and France, add to that the pro-fascist helpers that seem to have been available in all the countries the Germans took over.

      Don't get me wrong there would have been resistance, but in the long run it would have been futile. The Germans were clued up on what was what in Ireland many years ago looking at an episode of "The World At War" the camera zooms in over the shoulder of a German officer sitting at a table with a sheath of papers in his hand, as the camera zooms closer you can see its a list of Jews in Europe, near the bottom of the type-written list the word: Irland . . . . . . . . 4,000

      After 1941 when the USA was drawn into the war one U.S. Division was kept in Northern Ireland, its mission to move south across the border at any sign of the Germans trying to land in the Republic of Ireland.

      Connaught Stranger.

      Comment


      • #4
        On the other hand, how successful was blitzkrieg when the attacks did not take place from land? Had Germany the supply chain to support action against a conventional, if small army? I can't think of any german conquest in the early stages that was not overland. Even the Greek Islands were only held with the support of the Italians.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hallo Goldie Fish,

          The Germans carried on Naval landings in Norway, in their occupation of that country, along with airlifts, so there existed a possibility to have taken Ireland.

          If Adolf Hitler had delayed the attack on Russia and proceeded against the U.K. as was the original intention, then he had two possibilities, a reverse Allied D-Day scenario against the U.K. or to occupy the Republic of Ireland and use the country as a base to launch a two-pronged attack against the U.K.

          Judging by the initial supplies of men and material that were sent by ship from main-land Europe to North Africa, these could have been employed on a Irish invasion(it would have been possible if the Island of Gibraltar was taken out first, probably by a mass para drop.)

          Remember at the start of WW2 Germany was far ahead on men and equipment (tanks & aircraft), and the new tactic of Blitz-krieg had been proved to be effective.

          The loss of the Northern Irish naval facilities would have been a serious blow to the U.K. and Hitler could have starved them into submission.

          Connaught Stranger

          Comment


          • #6
            Hallo Members,

            during my research work for my book,

            What book is it-



            Allowances - - - - - - - -- - - - - Rates per diem. (In Shillings and Pence).

            Wife's Allowance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 0.

            I was at a lecture given by our local history society

            the subject was Military life in 1900's

            the lecturer said- that each unit was allowed have so many married Soldiers

            and those were given an allowance and the extra rations, lodgings etc

            and some wives were allowed go overseas with their husbands

            but this only went to those whose marriages were officially sanctioned

            or as he put it "admitted to the married establishment"

            I think up to a short time ago when you were recorded on Unit RO's as married

            the same wording was used
            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
            Are full of passionate intensity.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
              What book is it-

              I was at a lecture given by our local history society

              the subject was Military life in 1900's

              the lecturer said- that each unit was allowed have so many married Soldiers

              and those were given an allowance and the extra rations, lodgings etc

              and some wives were allowed go overseas with their husbands

              but this only went to those whose marriages were officially sanctioned

              or as he put it "admitted to the married establishment"

              I think up to a short time ago when you were recorded on Unit RO's as married

              the same wording was used
              The book I am working on is about the British Military Regiments,

              of Army, Cavalry & Militia, and Irish Militia units, that were in and around Castlebar,

              County Mayo, circa 1750 -1922.

              And the locations of other military barracks and installations used by the military in this period.

              What you make reference too with regards Married Soldiers dated to the 1900, refers to

              the British Military and this would have been quite a common occurrence from the 1800

              onwards in the British Military.

              Connaught Stranger.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think up to a short time ago when you were recorded on Unit RO's as married

                the same wording was used

                Sorry I meant to say that up to a sort time ago you were recorded on RO's as entering

                the Marriage establishment
                Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                Are full of passionate intensity.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The book I am working on is about the British Military Regiments,

                  of Army, Cavalry & Militia, and Irish Militia units, that were in and around Castlebar,

                  County Mayo, circa 1750 -1922.

                  And the locations of other military barracks and installations used by the military in this period.
                  That sounds fascinating. Any chance you might do a similar one for Galway (or know of one done already?) Whats your target date for completion?
                  "Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper"
                  Gen. Robert E. Lee

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
                    Hallo Members, during my research work for my book
                    Best of luck with it. An acquaintance of mine is doing something similiar on the barracks in Clonmel.
                    The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.
                    (George Bernard Shaw, Playwright, 1856 - 1950)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=Connaught Stranger;199163]Hallo Goldie Fish,

                      The Germans carried on Naval landings in Norway, in their occupation of that country, along with airlifts, so there existed a possibility to have taken Ireland.

                      The German Navy did not emerge unscated from the Norwegian Campaign, losing one third of it cruisers and almost half of its destroyers. How would the German Navy ressupply an invading force when the Royal Navy was an undefeated and controlling force. It would have been a turkey shoot if the Luftwaffe transports had tried to run the gauntlet.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hallo Tony,

                        you do make a valid point, but, the above scenario I was writing about, would only have been possible, after France had fallen and the Luftwaffe had more control over the skies.

                        With regards to an invasion coming from France to Ireland, would the R.A.F. have had the men and machines to protect the Republic of Ireland's shores?, and would the British Admiralty have risked all their main battle ships in the English Channel? leaving the North Sea open to German Naval activity coming across from the Baltic?

                        Connaught Stranger

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
                          Hallo Tony,

                          "you do make a valid point, but, the above scenario I was writing about, would only have been possible, after France had fallen and the Luftwaffe had more control over the skies."

                          Hi CS,
                          Invasion of the UK was not an option without the fall of France, bear in mind the lack of proper invasion vessels also the Luftwaffe never at any stage had control of the skies.

                          "With regards to an invasion coming from France to Ireland, would the R.A.F. have had the men and machines to protect the Republic of Ireland's shores?, and would the British Admiralty have risked all their main battle ships in the English Channel? leaving the North Sea open to German Naval activity coming across from the Baltic?"

                          "Connaught Stranger
                          "

                          With a depleted cruiser and destroyer fleet the protection of the larger vessels was in serious doubt. The Kriegesmarine would not have risked a deployment to Ireland. The Luftwaffe transports (JU52's) whilst having the range to reach Ireland had to run the gauntlet again, against the undefeated RAF, weather and low fuel reserves, to reach France.
                          Tony K

                          Comment

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