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  • Ireland's Application to Join NATO.

    Reading the Defence Forces Review 2006, I came across this little snippet.

    "Western analyses of Soviet intentions at that time did not consider that Ireland was under threat or was even part of a Soviet geo-contingency. Indeed Ireland's application to join NATO was declined by both the US and British governments, affirmation if such were needed that Ireland was not considered to feature in Soviet geo-strategic thinking (5). This latter point, however, remains to be proven."

    So hop on over to footnote 5.

    "For an interesting new disclosure on Ireland's application to join the Western Alliance, see: Garret Fitzgerald: "Ireland in the World: Further Reflections." Liberties Press, Dublin, 2005 pp198/199."

    Maybe I've just been living under a rock for a while, but this is the first I've heard of it. Can anyone fill me in as to when this was, how far the application went (was it a formal application, or just government officials talking to NATO off-the-record), and so on and so forth.

    NTM
    Last edited by California Tanker; 24 November 2008, 06:20. Reason: American spelling
    Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

  • #2
    Well Ireland joined the The Partnership for Peace with NATO back in 1999.

    This allowed Ireland an individual relationship with NATO, choosing it's own priorities for cooperation. The PfP has 24 countries on board.

    Was a more formal approach made after 1999??

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    • #3
      Originally posted by California Tanker View Post
      Reading the Defence Forces Review 2006, I came across this little snippet.

      "Western analyses of Soviet intentions etc

      NTM

      Thats Interesting to say the least!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by California Tanker View Post
        Indeed Ireland's application to join NATO was declined by both the US and British governments, affirmation if such were needed that Ireland was not considered to feature in Soviet geo-strategic thinking (5).
        It happened in the 50s or 60s

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        • #5
          Late 40s early 50s I think, never a runner.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by California Tanker View Post
            Reading the Defence Forces Review 2006, I came across this little snippet.

            "Western analyses of Soviet intentions at that time did not consider that Ireland was under threat or was even part of a Soviet geo-contingency....
            NTM
            Was that in the article about Soviet Military Mapping of Ireland?
            sigpic
            Say NO to violence against Women

            Originally posted by hedgehog
            My favourite moment was when the
            Originally posted by hedgehog
            red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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            • #7
              Some entries from the Dail crypts:
              Dáil Éireann - Volume 190 - 29 June, 1961

              Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of N.A.T.O.

              Mr. Corish Mr. Corish

              3. Mr. Corish asked the Taoiseach whether the Government of the United States of America have communicated in any way with the Irish Government about the desirability of this country joining NATO in the event of Ireland entering the Common Market or in any other event.

              The Taoiseach Seán F. Lemass

              The Taoiseach: The answer is in the negative.
              9. Dr. Browne and Mr. McQuillan asked the Minister for External Affairs whether the Government's decision that Ireland could take part in no military association or alliance such as NATO while Ireland was militarily occupied by one of the participants in the NATO agreement still stands.

              Minister for External Affairs (Mr. Aiken) Frank Aiken

              Minister for External Affairs (Mr. Aiken): The decision not to join NATO was taken in 1949 by the then Government and the present Government has never considered altering that decision.

              462

              Irrespective of the question of partition, important as that is, in our view the most important contribution which Ireland can make in international affairs is to play its part as an independent nation, free from alliances, in reducing tensions between States, and in forwarding constructive solutions for the sources of such tensions. We have endeavoured to do so, in the U.N. and elsewhere, by, for example, proposals aimed at restricting the spread of nuclear weapons and at encouraging the growth of areas of law. It is [462] because our position is now internationally understood and accepted that we were free to make such proposals and that we were able to make our contribution to world peace by sending our soldiers to the United Nations Observation Force in the Lebanon in 1958 and last year to the Congo where combat troops of nations belonging to NATO and other military blocs are not acceptable.
              Dáil Éireann - Volume 204 - 02 July, 1963

              Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Talks with President Kennedy: Irish Bases.

              Mr. Coughlan Mr. Coughlan

              1. Mr. Coughlan asked the Taoiseach whether he held any discussion with President Kennedy during his visit to this country on the possibility of setting up American or NATO military or naval bases in this country; and if he will give details of such discussions.

              The Taoiseach Seán F. Lemass

              The Taoiseach: The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative, and the second part does not, therefore, arise.

              Mr. Norton Mr. Norton
              Dáil Éireann - Volume 197 - 06 November, 1962

              Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of NATO.

              Mr. McQuillan Mr. McQuillan Dr. Browne Dr. Browne

              2. Dr. Browne and Mr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether, in connection with the recent reported statement of the Minister for Industry and Commerce that the fact that Ireland did not accede to NATO was due to special circumstances, he will state what were the special circumstances referred to; and if any significant change in those special circumstances has taken place since the decision not to join NATO was made which would justify the taking by Ireland of a different stand in relation to NATO at present.

              The Taoiseach Seán F. Lemass

              The Taoiseach: The Deputies are aware that the statement to which they refer corresponds precisely to what I said in Brussels on the 18th January last. They are also aware that the reasons why the then Government did not participate in the negotiations for the North Atlantic Treaty in 1949 are set out in the White Paper issued at the time by that Government.

              As regards the second part of the question I would refer the Deputies to my remarks in this House on the 8th March, 1962.

              Mr. McQuillan Mr. McQuillan

              402

              Mr. McQuillan: Is it not a fact that the implications of the special circumstances refered to in regard to NATO were in connection with the right of Britain to hold the Six Counties? If we joined NATO in 1949, according to the Government's interpretation at the time, we would thereby be recognising Britain's right to the [402] Six Counties. In view of the fact that the Taoiseach himself asserted in Ottawa in 1954 that that was the position, may I ask the Taoiseach now if the special circumstances have now changed in so far as that interpretation of the Articles of NATO is concerned?

              The Taoiseach Seán F. Lemass

              The Taoiseach: As the Deputy apparently knew the answer to his question, he obviously did not need to ask it.
              The bold part is what I believe to be the most oft quoted reason for us never joining - perhaps more has come to light?

              Interesting there's nothing from the 40's or early 50's about NATO in the Dail records
              Last edited by pym; 25 November 2008, 23:37.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                Was that in the article about Soviet Military Mapping of Ireland?
                Yes. Interesting article. I take it nobody has Fitzgerald's book to just look up the answer? Library, anyone?

                NTM
                Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Fitzgerald states in the book that Ireland made inquiries in 1949 about joining, and put in a formal application in June 1961, which was turned down (but doesn't give a reason why). Thats the only comment in the public domain about this, to the best of my knowledge.

                  He also states there were a number of other informal discussions around that same subject, such as that Haughey suggested that Ireland and the UK could enter into some kind of joint defence arrangement in discussions with Thatcher about Northern Ireland in the brief FF Govt of 1982, and that Thatcher's response was along the lines that the appropriate means for that would be for Ireland to join NATO.

                  This is couched in a general section about how various Taoiseaigh (sp?) at various times have pointed out that a natural corollory of us joining the EU (or EC at the time) was that we would end up taking some part in regional defence or security arrangements, and even made public statements to that effect, like Lemass promising in 1962 that if we were allowed join the EC then, we would 'take our place' with the other nations of Europe.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by California Tanker View Post
                    Yes. Interesting article. ...
                    NTM
                    We can take it then that Ireland was part of a "Soviet geo-contingency."
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                    Say NO to violence against Women

                    Originally posted by hedgehog
                    My favourite moment was when the
                    Originally posted by hedgehog
                    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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                    • #11
                      Perhaps, or maybe they just had orders to do maps for every part of Northern Europe, 'just in case'.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                        We can take it then that Ireland was part of a "Soviet geo-contingency."
                        There is an article in the Defence Forces review covering the soviet millitary mapping of Ireland which may be of relevance.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by northie View Post
                          There is an article in the Defence Forces review covering the soviet millitary mapping of Ireland which may be of relevance.
                          Umm.. I refer you to six posts eariler.

                          Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                          Was that in the article about Soviet Military Mapping of Ireland?
                          NTM
                          Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Aidan View Post
                            Perhaps, or maybe they just had orders to do maps for every part of Northern Europe, 'just in case'.
                            In case of what?
                            sigpic
                            Say NO to violence against Women

                            Originally posted by hedgehog
                            My favourite moment was when the
                            Originally posted by hedgehog
                            red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                              In case of what?
                              War

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