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  • New book claims Dev was British spy

    Sounds like bollocks to me but it's one way to sell a book I suppose.


    'De Valera was a British spy'

    Book claims national hero was 'turned' after 1916


    By John Spain Books Editor
    Monday October 26 2009


    A NEW book to be published next month makes the shocking claim that Eamon de Valera, the founding father of the nation, was under the control of the British.
    The book, provocatively titled 'England's Greatest Spy: Eamon de Valera', suggests that Dev was terrified of being executed after the Rising and was "turned" in exchange for his life. For some years afterwards, the book claims, Dev was under British control.
    The 470-page hardback is published by Stacey International, a London publisher specialising in politics and history.
    The author is retired US naval officer and historian John Turi from Princeton, New Jersey. He developed an interest in Irish history through his wife, who was born in Ireland. Turi has been researching his controversial book for a decade.
    The case against de Valera by Turi is based firstly on a detailed analysis of Dev's emotionally stunted formative years.
    He claims Dev was rejected by everyone in his early life -- his mysterious father in New York (in fact, Dev was probably illegitimate), his mother, his uncle in Ireland, who treated him coldly, even the Church, which rejected his ambitions for the priesthood because of his probable illegitimacy.
    His miserable upbringing left Dev with an inadequate personality, Turi suggests, which made him susceptible to being influenced later on.
    Turi is scathing about Dev's erratic behaviour during the Rising, when he was in charge of the men at Boland's Mill.
    He stayed awake for days, became disorientated and issued confused, sometimes ridiculous, orders. "It was not just his tactics the men questioned," Turi writes, "they questioned his sanity as well."
    Dev kept his men "sitting on their heels" while a short distance away at Mount Street Bridge eight Volunteers were trying to hold off hundreds of British soldiers.
    In fact the men at Boland's Mill played little or no part in the Easter Week fighting, Turi says, because Dev was so exhausted and fearful.
    At the end of the week, when word reached Boland's Mill of the surrender, Turi writes that de Valera "abandoned his men and slipped out of Boland's at noon on the Sunday, taking with him a British prisoner . . . as his insurance against being shot before he could surrender".

    Cowardly
    "De Valera the cowardly, incompetent, mentally unstable officer who deserted his troops was (later) repackaged as de Valera the lonely hero fighting valiantly against overwhelming odds."
    What followed was also suspicious, Turi says.
    Dev later claimed that he was tried with a number of other men and sentenced to death.
    Turi writes: "Not one of the men allegedly tried with de Valera ever confirmed that such a trial took place, and there is no trace in the British Public Record Office of any trial."
    He also quotes the flat denial by the army prosecuting officer, William Wylie, that de Valera had been tried.
    Turi also considers Dev's fragile mental state and tearful collapse at Richmond Barracks the night before he was taken to Kilmainham, to where condemned prisoners were sent.
    All the events indicate that Dev was terrified of dying, Turi suggests, and that it would have been easy for the British intelligence officer Ivor Price to turn Dev into a British collaborator. Major Price was "skilled at manipulating weakness".
    Turi notes that Dev was the only one of four Dublin commandants not to be tried and executed.
    He dismisses theories that Dev was spared because he was born in America or because the British realised that further executions would be a mistake; as others were executed later.
    The only reasonable explanation, Turi claims, is that Dev was "turned". In all, Turi sets forth a dozen instances of what he calls "de Valera's machinations that aided and abetted British interests" to support this claim.

    Collins
    Some of this 'evidence' concerns Dev's activities in the US after he was released from prison -- which split the powerful Irish-American lobby.
    Turi also says the British feared what Michael Collins might do in the North and used de Valera to engineer the situation that resulted in Collins's death.
    Turi also calls Irish neutrality during the World War II "a hoax on the Irish people and a major boon for English interests".
    His book, which ends with a call for a posthumous trial of de Valera, will be published in Ireland and Britain on November 30 and in the US next year.
    - John Spain Books Editor
    Irish Independent
    sigpic
    Say NO to violence against Women

    Originally posted by hedgehog
    My favourite moment was when the
    Originally posted by hedgehog
    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

  • #2
    John J Turi - Born and raised in New Jersey, USA, John is a graduate of the State University of New York and worked as a U.S. Naval Officer, a journalist for various newspapers and a Legislative Aide to a New Jersey Assemblyman and Senator. He is married to Marie Claire O'Donnell, a native born Irishwoman and descendant of the legendary O'Donnells. Her father and uncles opposed the British occupation, with one uncle suffering the loss of an arm in a skirmish with the English. John is an amateur historian whose argument in this book is compelling, convincing and researched in depth.
    hmmm, a lot of pointers there....
    You will never have a quiet world until you knock the patriotism out of the human race

    Comment


    • #3
      what a load of shite:

      On the other hand I was reading an autobiography of a man who started life as an orphan

      and had to live under the staircase of his uncles house- then when he reached 11 a letter was handdelivered to his uncles house by an owl of all creatures giving this lad a scholarship to an accademy called hogwarts,

      the only thing that didnt ring true in the book was the lie that a red headed pikey could have 2 freinds.
      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
      Are full of passionate intensity.

      Comment


      • #4
        I am not a British spy!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DeV View Post
          I am not a British spy!
          So explain why you weren't court-martialled after the rising then. Go on why is that.

          Also explain why Neil Jordan depicts you in the GPO with Michael Collins when you were supposed to be in Boland's Mill.

          And exactly where were you positioned at Beal na Blath. We'd all be interested in that one.
          sigpic
          Say NO to violence against Women

          Originally posted by hedgehog
          My favourite moment was when the
          Originally posted by hedgehog
          red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
            So explain why you weren't court-martialled after the rising then. Go on why is that.
            According to my history teachers to prevent doing anything to potentially stop the US joining the Allies in the first world war

            Also explain why Neil Jordan depicts you in the GPO with Michael Collins when you were supposed to be in Boland's Mill.
            Because it isn't historically accurate

            And exactly where were you positioned at Beal na Blath. We'd all be interested in that one.
            From the film or history?

            Comment


            • #7
              Well personally, I have been of the opinion that DeValera would have served the Irish people better if he'd become another 1916 martyr. Another book for my Christmas list.
              'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
              'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
              Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
              He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
              http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Can't beat a good conspiracy theory! Anything that sticks it to FF has got to be worth a few quid of my hard earned. Its not like the Empire hasn't had a bit of track record in infiltrating the higher echelons of republicanism(deliberate small r) or indeed the lower echelons for the long game.

                Always thought his condolences on the death of Herr Hitler was a bit weird! He kept the country in the dark ages for God knows how long-it wasn't only the good auld Holy See that gained from that!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I read somewhere once that Queen Elizabeth used to go out with the magician Paul Daniels

                  but I dont have any proof for that:

                  Dev was a clown- a back stabber and he wasnt exactly the crack on a session

                  but before we cruicify him, lets see the evidence

                  until then he is innocent of this accusation.
                  Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                  Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                  The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                  The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                  The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                  Are full of passionate intensity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, it would explain a certain amount of national sabotage.
                    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                      I
                      but before we cruicify him, lets see the evidence...
                      And the first step is to have a look at waht this guy says in his book - which may or may not be a oad of conspiracy theory shite.:wink:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And the first step is to have a look at waht this guy says in his book - which may or may not be a load of conspiracy theory shite from sombody with some family or other axe to grind .:wink:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pod View Post
                          And the first step is to have a look at waht this guy says in his book - which may or may not be a load of conspiracy theory shite from sombody with some family or other axe to grind .:wink:
                          It's pure invention designed to sell the book. I wouldn't waste my hard earned euro on it.

                          The most obvious counter argument is the fact that Dev opted for neutrality in WW2. If he really was working for the British that wouldn't have happened.
                          sigpic
                          Say NO to violence against Women

                          Originally posted by hedgehog
                          My favourite moment was when the
                          Originally posted by hedgehog
                          red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            its not unusual for terrorists in detention to be turned, and many of them provide information even when they don't want to.

                            And people who write books need to make money.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                              It's pure invention designed to sell the book. I wouldn't waste my hard earned euro on it.

                              The most obvious counter argument is the fact that Dev opted for neutrality in WW2. If he really was working for the British that wouldn't have happened.
                              Yes, and if it were true that he had been turned in 1916, then that fact in itself would have been enough blackmail materiel for the British to use in the economic war and the ports negotiations as well as entering WW11.

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