U-boats being refuelled in WW2

[dingo42]

Perhaps it was an attempt to discredit Ireland after Dev decided we would be neutral. Paul G, I'll have a look for that book, I'd like to be able to put this matter to bed ASAP.

[VosperM1]

When and why did the donegal corridor come into use?
Cheers
VosperMI

[dingo42]

When and why did the donegal corridor come into use?
Cheers
VosperMI

First official flight was on February 21, 1941 by No. 240 Squadron RAF's Supermarine Stranraer flying boats. It's all here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donegal_Corridor

[ZULU]

While we're on the subject of subs. THought that this might be interesting.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/slaterspeed/4178555037/

[paul g]

Perhaps it was an attempt to discredit Ireland after Dev decided we would be neutral. Paul G, I'll have a look for that book, I'd like to be able to put this matter to bed ASAP.

Its the best book I've ever read on the topic. I must admit having met british people in their 60's who are aware of the stories.

[Victor]

That there doesn't seem to be any (Irish) stories would seem to suggest they are un-true. However, warships are perfectly entitled to refuel in neutral countries, provided they don't do it so often that it could be suggested they are based there. It think, once every three weeks is the standard, on the basis that most ships would have a enough fuel for a week's operations. The Graf Spee incident didn't see a diplomatic spat, did it?

[VosperM1]

Apart from that, Doenitz ordered his U-Boats to stay out of the Irish Sea, early on, quite simply because it was comparatively narrow and heavily patrolled.Any U-Boat that chanced a daylight transit near the Irish West coast was likely to be spotted and attacked by Coastal Command, especially after the Donegal Corridor came into operation.
regards
GttC[/QUOTE]

on what basis do you claim that u boats kept out of the Irish Sea, why were the RN depth charging then from day one? and why was "my " MTB MI patroling the east coast armed with depth charges ?
Cheers
Vosper MI

[paul g]

That there doesn't seem to be any (Irish) stories would seem to suggest they are un-true. However, warships are perfectly entitled to refuel in neutral countries, provided they don't do it so often that it could be suggested they are based there. It think, once every three weeks is the standard, on the basis that most ships would have a enough fuel for a week's operations. The Graf Spee incident didn't see a diplomatic spat, did it?

Common sense would seem to indicate its a myth. Ireland has no oil, it had no oil refinery, and no oil tankers. Where is this oil coming from, do you think the british would have sold us oil if there was even the slighteest suspicion that we would seel it on to the germans.

Fisk is very good on this, Churchill was obsessed with the possibility and devoted a lot of resources into the problem, the only result was a lot of bored and seasick sailors who found out that small communities that could barely service a trawler were unlikely to be able to refuel sohisticated warships like submarines.

[mugs]

I've recently been reading a book called "That Neutral Island". It mentions that alot of these type of stories were made up by the British press due to Ireland's neutral stance which Churchill didn't like.

I too have had a time trying to convince some rather Loyalist minded people that these stories were not true.

In fact Ireland did alot to help Britain in the War particularly G2 liasing with MI5 in dealing with the re-surgence or the IRA.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all,
Vosper, the RN depth-charged a lot of false echoes, as did every other combatant Navy. Far more charges were dropped on bad or poor contacts than ever scored kills.Doenitz's operational order to stay out of the narrow and shallow Irish Sea, which was full of RN vessels, especially subchasers and 'sweepers,is a matter of fact.I just can't quote the reference in German Archives to you but it is there. Also, did it occur to you that the handful of depth-charges the M1 carried were it's only charges and there were scarcely enough reloads and spares to fit out the whole fleet?
regards
GttC

[VosperM1]

Hi all,
Vosper, the RN depth-charged a lot of false echoes, as did every other combatant Navy. Far more charges were dropped on bad or poor contacts than ever scored kills.Doenitz's operational order to stay out of the narrow and shallow Irish Sea, which was full of RN vessels, especially subchasers and 'sweepers,is a matter of fact.I just can't quote the reference in German Archives to you but it is there. Also, did it occur to you that the handful of depth-charges the M1 carried were it's only charges and there were scarcely enough reloads and spares to fit out the whole fleet?
regards
GttC

Yes sir, I am well aware of the first part of your reply. Irrespective of so called orders U Boats did operate in the Irish Sea. U260 which was scuttled off Galley Head operated in the Irish Sea/St Georges Channel. They also operated in the 1914/18 war and against greater odds due to the fact that the RN operated from both sides of the Irish Sea.I have seen also on other Irish websites byIrish experts that German planes operated over Ireland and some even crashed. The MTB's were short in armament but were at least meant to be a deterrent.
Cheers
VosperMI

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi Vosper,
Of course they operated in the Irish Sea.Manchester and Liverpool and the Scottish and Welsh ports offered many tempting targets but, after learning the hard way, they pulled out and concentrated their efforts elsewhere.As for German air activity, well, early in the war, they could come and go as they pleased but as British air defences on the UK West coast improved, by day and night, it became harder for the Luftwaffe to operate over the Irish Sea or near our territory at all.As for the Vosper's armament, well, it was a token, just like the rest of the DF's weaponry at the time and in itself, it was considerably less well-armed than it's contemporaries in the RN.
regards
GttC

[VosperM1]

Hi GTTC
I believe that six U Boats were lost in the Irish Sea/St Georges Channel all in 1945 plus one in 1944 and one in 1940. Yes you are correct that the German airforce as my aviation friends tell were not flying around Ireland as often from late 1941 on.
Thanks and cheers
VosperMI

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi Vosper,
If you haven't been, you should contact Airman Mick Whelan at the Air Corps Museum in Baldonnel and arrange a visit. They have a wealth of stuff there, especially about the Emergency / WW II. Tony Kearns, previously of this parish, is known to lurk there and he is an Expert about that period.
regards
GttC

have a good Christmas.

[hptmurphy]

The aviation side of the german interests in Ireland has been well recorded with books by Donal mcCarron and Paddy Cummins.Some very good and detailed perspectives and photos from the crashes, landings internments etc.

The maitime aspect has but one dedicated Irish Book on the subjetct along with the various naval histories .

Some of the period books on the time again have snippets but tend to generalise.

The military side of things again is well covered both in picture and word albeit it very repetitive and often inaccurate in places.

recording of our maritime history has never been one of strong points but by linking together some of the books as mentioned the picture is reasonably clear.

there are a lot of myths out there in relation to who did what and why.Most of these can be reasoned out by research.

It is on record as the U Boats and fuel one was in fact a theory introduced by Churchill for the sake of trying publicy embarass De Velera and for no other reason, as Churchill was in no doubt to what exactly the abilities of the nation were when it came to such things.It stesm back to 1938 and the Treaty Ports and a touch of attempted blackmail.