Bren guns in Irish service (again)

[Bodger]

Further to an old post regarding help on FF marked Bren magazines I would request your help again please ?

I have since aquired a Czech made magazine box for the Bren that is pre WW2 war and came from Ireland with some of the FF marked magazines.

The box has C - T painted on the back of the box.



Can anyone tell me what C - T stands for please ?

Many thanks Kevin

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there,
Given that it's simply a hand-painted set of letters, it could just be initials of a former owner.I often saw such boxes reused for casual jobs around barracks but even they tended to have properly stencilled initials on them, such as "B.F.W." for Camp Staff or "Light Strike" for the Fougas or "No 1 Support" for Helis and so on.
regards
GttC

[hedgehog]

It might be missing a D

as in CTD Bren Gun

[hptmurphy]

I

t might be missing a D

as in CTD Bren Gun

Yeah but the D is missing at the middle as opposed to the end.

We need Quartermaster to look at this for an input

[hedgehog]

Some of the older stencils had C-T-D

spread over the entire box- I suppose we should have a look at the entire box

[turbocalves]

When i did my DCs course we got a long barrell 105, that belonged to the ordnance school that was used for training the ordnance lads, and it had CT printed all over it. There was a vertical line between the C and T making it kinda look like C I T.

We were told it had never been fired and was only ever used for instruction, may be this might be the same with your bren gun.

[Traumagod]

Cartridges Training maybe?

[Bodger]

OK here is the rest of the magazine box after it has been cleaned up a bit.There were no other markings on it apart from the painted C - T.









Luckily the box retains its leather handle with original Czech pattern commercial rivets as also found on Czech ZB26/30 mag box handles.The other Czech feature is the slinging loops found on the end of the box.

I pressume these magazine boxes (and magazines) must have been supplied with the 226 ? Brens from Czechoslovakia in 1937 according to - http://www.curragh.info/articles/3infbn.htm
Although http://www.military.ie/dfhq/history/history.htm giving details of
Stocks of Equipment in 1939 shows only 82 Brens listed in 1939 ?

To me this is a very interesting part of Irish military history that I would dearly like to find more information on especially as they have probably been in service in Ireland longer than any other nation in one form or another.

All the best Kevin

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there,
Never saw one with a leather strap before, nor with that small metal loop under it.Perhaps it's a dedicated vehicle box, such as for a Bren Carrier.Are there any lot / batch numbers or any Stores numbers on it? Either pressed or etched?
regards
GttC

[Vickers]

I certainly saw one with the leather strap although i don't remember the small metal loop. It was in one of the 21 Bn stores before the reorg. I wonder where it is now?

[The real Jack]

It was in one of the 21 Bn stores before the reorg. I wonder where it is now?

Still there if the CQ's from 21 Bn were any way similar to those of 10 bn!

[hptmurphy]

Strap and loop are non standard as per bren guns but then again is it from the British made bren, no its froma ZG33 which didn't kae it as far as the reserve.

Big question would be , what happened to these weapons, and it might give you more light on your magazine box

[Bodger]

The loops are of the same design the Czechs used on the ZB26 magazine boxes (but for 20 round 7.92mm magazines) for loading on to pack horse/mule or cliping a box on either end of a sling and slung over the shoulder to aid carrying.

ZB26 mag box.




As pointed out the Czech Bren mag box is a different design from the British made item,but if I found one I would imagine they would have been more.

There are no stamps of any kind on the magazine box,the only markings are on the rivets 'Star',the same commercial rivet found on ZB26 box handles.

The best picture of the Czechoslovakian made Brens which entered Irish service in 1937 which these magazine boxes were supplied with can be found in 'Step Together' by Donal MacCarron page 25.(thanks to a forum member)

These Czech export Brens that were suplied to Ireland were very different to British made Brens or trials guns.

What did happen to these Czech Brens ?
I have found magazines a magazine box and a magazine cartridge loader but would love to find out more about the Irish contract Czech made Brens.

All the best Kevin.

[DeV]

I certainly saw one with the leather strap although i don't remember the small metal loop. It was in one of the 21 Bn stores before the reorg. I wonder where it is now?

I remember 1 but most had the metal fold up handle

Still there if the CQ's from 21 Bn were any way similar to those of 10 bn!

Only gone in the last few month.

As pointed out the Czech Bren mag box is a different design from the British made item,but if I found one I would imagine they would have been more.

Doesn't look any different apart from the handle?!

The best picture of the Czechoslovakian made Brens which entered Irish service in 1937 which these magazine boxes were supplied with can be found in 'Step Together' by Donal MacCarron page 25.(thanks to a forum member)

These Czech export Brens that were suplied to Ireland were very different to British made Brens or trials guns.

What did happen to these Czech Brens ?
I have found magazines a magazine box and a magazine cartridge loader but would love to find out more about the Irish contract Czech made Brens.

All the best Kevin.

It was my understanding that the Bren was a Czech designed (By Brno based on the 7.92mm ZBvz26) weapon that was only manufactured in the UK by Enfield in .303 inch.

??

If you are refering to the Bren nearest the camera in the picture that is a Bren Mk1 (also known as a "DP" not sure why?)

[Turkey]

If you are refering to the Bren nearest the camera in the picture that is a Bren Mk1 (also known as a "DP" not sure why?)

As far as I can remember MK1 Brens became known as DP after their main spring had become time expired and they were withdrawn from normal use. The MK111 replaced them from about 1955.
I cannot remember for sure but I think the MK1's had their barrels drilled and the firing pin cut short. the 'D' in DP stood for demonstration, 'cannot remember what the 'P' was for.
I don't know why they were retained for this porpose as there were several significent differences between the 2 weapons.