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Did the Irish army ever use the sten gun

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  • Did the Irish army ever use the sten gun

    Did the Irish army ever use the sten gun and if so what mark. If not was the carl gustav the first sub machine gun to enter service.

  • #2
    To my knowledge no, it may have been used during the Emergency not sure.

    If not the Carl Gustav SMG was.

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    • #3
      I dont think we ever used it but im sure the Army must have tested it before buying the Gustav.

      The Thompson would have been the first SMG in use.

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      • #4
        There was another SMG in use before the Gustav. I saw a photo of it in use. It had a pistol grip and magazine housing similar to the Gustav, but the barrel had no sleeve around it.
        Not a sten though.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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        • #5
          I googled Irish Army SMG and found this book (which looks interesting)

          Irish Army Orders of Battle 1923-2004 by Adrian J English

          On page 48 he says that in the 1950s saw the introduction of the Gustaf as the first standard SMG.

          The book's on Amazon by the way.
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          Say NO to violence against Women

          Originally posted by hedgehog
          My favourite moment was when the
          Originally posted by hedgehog
          red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
            I googled Irish Army SMG and found this book (which looks interesting)

            Irish Army Orders of Battle 1923-2004 by Adrian J English

            On page 48 he says that in the 1950s saw the introduction of the Gustaf as the first standard SMG.

            The book's on Amazon by the way.
            Ive got that book and it also says on page 34 that by April 1940 the Army had '36 sub-machineguns of various types'.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Oriel View Post
              Ive got that book and it also says on page 34 that by April 1940 the Army had '36 sub-machineguns of various types'.
              And then they got loads from IRA stocks.
              Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Oriel View Post
                Ive got that book and it also says on page 34 that by April 1940 the Army had '36 sub-machineguns of various types'.
                Which means that they did not have a standard SMG in 1940.

                Originally posted by Victor View Post
                And then they got loads from IRA stocks.
                Unlikely.
                Groundhog
                Chief of the Diet Tribe
                Last edited by Groundhog; 28 April 2010, 14:49.
                sigpic
                Say NO to violence against Women

                Originally posted by hedgehog
                My favourite moment was when the
                Originally posted by hedgehog
                red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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                • #9
                  Hi all,
                  They had Thompsons, with drum magazines, from the time of the Civil War. My late grandfather was both a firer of them and fired upon by them..........did they have a stock of Madsens?
                  regards
                  GttC

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                    Unlikely.
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Raid
                    The volume of material stolen, and the massive hunt to recover it that followed turned up all the stolen ammunition and weapons plus more, along with the IRA volunteers attempting to store it.
                    The Thompson had been a favourite of the IRA in the 1930s as it was readily available in the USA and was militarily capable for the types of operations they were engaged in.

                    While the above says "plus more", other references seem to such that it was "plus more of the same".

                    Incidentally, what was the army doing with a million round if they only had 36 SMGs? Did they expect that much pistol combat?
                    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

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                    • #11
                      It's unlikely that the Irish army would use weapons captured from the IRA in the 30s and 40s. Anything left after the civil war was pretty much unserviceable.

                      Your link above is about the IRA nicking DF arms.

                      I would also reiterate that the Gustaf was the first STANDARD SMG in the DF. The DF may well have had in it's possession lots of exotic stuff from WW1. But they weren't STANDARD.
                      sigpic
                      Say NO to violence against Women

                      Originally posted by hedgehog
                      My favourite moment was when the
                      Originally posted by hedgehog
                      red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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                      • #12
                        Hi there,
                        When the Free State Army tidied up after the Civil War, they realised that they had hundreds, if not thousands of all sorts of pistols and sundry handguns, from many sources. They had all sorts of calibres, most of which tended to be around .32, especially Mauser and Colt. Many of the weapons were in poor order, as was the ammunition. They had already decided to standardise on British weapons and calibres, so all the old stuff was scrapped or dumped. My grandfather was involved in collecting and destroying old ordnance, including grenades( factory and home-manufactured), edged weapons such as bayonets (many of which were WW1 souvenirs)and swords, improvised mines (including stolen blasting dynamite) and sundry military items.
                        regards
                        GttC

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                        • #13
                          was the sub machine gun not a bit of a novelty prior to ww12 sure the Bergman mp 18 but amongst most bar the Germans the sub machine gun suffered from a prohibition era Chicago gangster style image , it s not surprising that the DF had no sub-machine gun. The blitzkrieg really brought the sub machine gun to the fore with the allies scrambling to adopt the lancaster, sten, m3 along side the m1 Thomson, by the time the DF adopted the gustaf it could be argued that the time of the sub machine gun was coming to an end ,
                          "take a look to the sky right before you die, its the last time you will"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by greyfox View Post
                            was the sub machine gun not a bit of a novelty prior to ww12 sure the Bergman mp 18 but amongst most bar the Germans the sub machine gun suffered from a prohibition era Chicago gangster style image , it s not surprising that the DF had no sub-machine gun. The blitzkrieg really brought the sub machine gun to the fore with the allies scrambling to adopt the lancaster, sten, m3 along side the m1 Thomson, by the time the DF adopted the gustaf it could be argued that the time of the sub machine gun was coming to an end ,
                            The sub-machine gun was a child of trench warfare. The Schmeissers, Thompsons and Brownings were toying with the idea of man-portable, high rate of fire weapons and came up with things like the MP18, Thompson and the BAR. The Brits (followed by us), as ever preparing for the last war but one, remained attached to the Lee Enfield backed up by the Vickers MMG. Come WW2 the Blitzkrieg demonstrated the value of the SMG for CQB. With all the Lee Enfields left on the beaches at Dunkirk, the Brits needed a cheap, quickly produced weapon. Hence the Sten. And in Russia the PPSH.
                            sigpic
                            Say NO to violence against Women

                            Originally posted by hedgehog
                            My favourite moment was when the
                            Originally posted by hedgehog
                            red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Victor View Post
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_RaidIncidentally, what was the army doing with a million round if they only had 36 SMGs? Did they expect that much pistol combat?
                              Was all the ammo .45 ACP ?
                              Most of the ammo taking must have been .303 . Does anyone know?

                              The Army may have had more than 36 SMGs before the raid because it says in the article that ''sixty-six cases of Thompsons and ammunition'' were captured by the RUC in South Armagh. But it does not say if they came from the raid.

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