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  • Remembrance Sunday

    Today is Remembrance Sunday so spare a thought for the thousands of Irishmen and Irishwomen who sacrificed their lives for freedom from real tyranny. From the Great War to this year's Gulf War.

    Cuimhneoimid Ort
    Last edited by Groundhog; 10 November 2003, 22:14.
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    Say NO to violence against Women

    Originally posted by hedgehog
    My favourite moment was when the
    Originally posted by hedgehog
    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

  • #2
    Memorial to 13-year-old war victim under fire
    John Burns
    Sunday Times

    A PROPOSED memorial to a 13-year-old boy who was the youngest soldier to die in the first world war is being opposed by Workers’ party councillors in Waterford.
    John Condon was one month short of his 14th birthday when he was killed at Ypres in May 1915. Waterford city council plans to erect a bronze memorial next year commemorating Condon and other locals “who fell in all wars and on peace-keeping duties worldwide”.

    But Workers’ party councillors described the memorial as “militaristic”, “offensive” and “very British”. One believes the wearing of steel helmets by soldiers in the sculpture is “inappropriate”.

    Billy McCarthy, who voted against the memorial, said: “The proposed memorial has no Celtic or Irish elements. It looks like something that was borrowed from Coleraine or Leeds. I am not against a monument as such. I think this one is offensive.”

    In a debate at Waterford council last year, McCarthy expressed shock that “we want to honour a misguided child with a monument”. He believes the €160,000 budget should be met by public subscription and not from council funds.

    Another Workers’ party councillor, Davy Walsh, said those who fought in the war of independence should be commemorated. He abstained in the council vote on the monument. A final vote will be taken next month.

    Walsh told the council that Condon had not died for freedom but for British imperialism and its wish “to create a new order”, and he expressed anger that public funding would be used to recognise the British Army, which had “a long, sullied history” in this country.

    While he wasn’t questioning Condon’s courage, he felt it was “unbelievable” that the state should be asked to fund a memorial “when this country is not free from shore to shore”.

    Condon’s relatives expressed regret at their attitude. “I was disappointed. Those opposed to it could easily have had someone killed in the war themselves,” said John Condon, a nephew of the soldier.

    Last February, Condon, 70, and a cousin, Sonny, visited the soldier’s grave for the first time in the Poelkapelle military cemetery in Belgium, and met government representatives at a civic reception. Footage of their visit will be broadcast tomorrow on RTE’s Nationwide documentary on Condon.

    Sonny Condon said: “I was a little disappointed with the objections to the memorial. People thought it was a bit British. But it is supposed to be in recognition of all soldiers, those who stayed at home as well as those who fought abroad.

    “All the Irish soldiers who fought in world war one are regarded as heroes in Belgium, particularly John Condon. That came as a surprise to me. Someone said to me that when the war was over all the soldiers who fought in it returned home as heroes except the Irish, who had to hang their heads. But a lot of those Irish soldiers thought they were fighting for their freedom because they had been promised home rule in return for joining the war.”

    John Condon is thought to have fooled British Army recruiting officers into believing he was old enough to go the front. He may have been inspired by appeals from John Redmond, a local MP, who argued that the British government would look favourably on home rule if southern Catholics joined the army.

    Condon was tall for his age, and told his family he was serving in a part-time regiment in Co Tipperary, but instead fooled authorities into thinking he was 18. “He was a big guy, according to the photographs,” said Sonny Condon. “Soldiers got good meals and the money was good. There was a sense of adventure and the feeling that the war wouldn’t last long.”

    After training in Clonmel, Condon was posted in December 1914 to the 2nd Battalion, Royal Irish Regiment and moved to Flanders the following April. He went missing in action on May 24 and it was only then his family learned where he was. The boy is thought to have been poisoned by German chlorine gas.

    Ten years later his body was found by a farmer - the young Irishman was identified by the number 6322 on his boot, which was returned to his family. He was interred at Poelkapelle where his age was recorded as 14.

    His grave is one of the most frequently visited in Belgium, and his biography has been published in Flemish. There are now plans to name a hostel and peace centre after him.

    John and Sonny Condon were the first of his relatives to visit the grave, where they laid a wreath. “There were about 14 television cameras following us around the cemetery. Every step we took we were followed,” said John. “When I came to the grave, one of 35,000 in the cemetery, I shed a few tears. It was very emotional.”

    The Waterford sculpture was designed by Pat Cunningham and Ann Harpur, two local artists, and will depict four guardian bronze figures with their heads bowed surrounding a central resting space.

    At 5.20am on May 24, the anniversary of Condon’s death, the sun will shine through the centre of the piece.

    Comment


    • #3
      Many cemeteries in Ireland have a few of the distinctive CWGC headstones signifying the resting place of someone who died in foreign wars.

      You can search by cemetry at the CWGC site: www.cwgc.org

      Given that it was policy to generally bury soldiers near where they fell, how did these remains come to be repatriated?
      .
      .
      .
      With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

      Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

      Comment


      • #4
        who the f*** are the workers party? You have to hate these minority parties dont you?
        You're even dumber than I tell people

        You might have been infected but you never were a bore

        Comment


        • #5
          Another Workers’ party councillor, Davy Walsh, said those who fought in the war of independence should be commemorated.

          Obviously he is unfamiliar with the geography of Waterford City or he would know that there is already a monument to those who died in the War of Independence on the quays in Waterford. It depicts the figure of Christ who I'm fairly sure was never in the IRA. The WP muppet who objects to steel helmets being depicted is, ironically, being historically accurate. Condon died before helmets were introduced. Nor was his grave accidentally found. His remains were identified, as were those of a comrade soldier, Pte Carthy, when they were disinterred from a battlefield grave near Railway Wood in 1923.

          Poelkapelle Cemetery doesn't hold 35,000 burials. Probably 3,500. Tyne Cot is the biggest CWGC cemetery in the world and it holds 12,000 graves. A walk through it is the most sobering and moving experience I know. Near Poelkapelle is Langemark German cemetery, holding 40,000+ burials. 21,000 are in a mass grave.

          Many cemeteries in Ireland have a few of the distinctive CWGC headstones signifying the resting place of someone who died in foreign wars.

          These headstones mark the graves of those who died at home, either of natural causes or wounds. There are twenty or so in St Patrick's cemetery, Clonmel. The CWGC has published casualty rolls by location and CWGC burials turn up in the oddest, remotest parts of the country.

          Last edited by Groundhog; 9 November 2003, 23:47.
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          Say NO to violence against Women

          Originally posted by hedgehog
          My favourite moment was when the
          Originally posted by hedgehog
          red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

          Comment


          • #6
            Family in tribute to soldier killed in Iraq

            From:The Irish Independent
            Monday, 10th November, 2003


            THE FAMILY of Lance Corporal Ian Malone, the young Ballyfermot soldier shot dead by a sniper in Basra, southern Iraq, last April yesterday attended their first Remembrance Day Service at St Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin.

            The 28-year-old, who had served with the Irish Guards, was especially remembered during yesterday's sermon by Rev Brian McAvoy, a retired chaplain to the Royal Air Force.

            The soldier's mother May, his father Patrick, brother Edward, and sisters Michelle, Deborah and Carol joined the 1,000-strong gathering remembering those who died in the two world wars.

            Mrs Malone said it was a lovely ceremony and her husband Frank said it was a very appropriate way to remember their son.

            President McAleese and British Ambassador Stewart Eldon, who read the first lesson, were among the dignitaries at yesterday's ceremony.

            The German, Dutch and Belgian ambassadors were also in attendance, along with diplomatic representatives from France, Italy, Russia, Canada and Greece.

            "Each of us as an individual has an arena in which to ensure that sparrows do not fall unnoticed, that hairs are counted, known and loved," Rev McAvoy said.

            Balbriggan-born Rev McAvoy praised Irish soldiers, saying they had a talent for earning the trust of conflicting parties and locals in the areas they served in.

            He was very proud to have been asked to deliver the sermon. It was a "huge honour", he said.
            "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

            Comment


            • #7
              Being that time of the year, the telly and newspapers carry a lot of WW1 articles. Nationwide covered John Condon yesterday. Quite good, the memorial looks well.

              Today's Indo had one on the recent discovery of some British bodies during work on a motorway on Pilckem Ridge. This motorway is the cause of much controversy. The Belgian authorities insist they need to drive it straight over Pilckem Ridge, which is in fact one mass grave of the undiscovered dead of the Great War. The British government is outraged, calling it desecration.

              http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dccfarr/A19.htm

              http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1772999.stm

              At least one of the recently discovered dead will have a known burial. Pte Storey of the Sussex Regt equipped himself with a brass name tag. Others may be identified from their equipment.
              Last edited by Groundhog; 11 November 2003, 23:59.
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              Say NO to violence against Women

              Originally posted by hedgehog
              My favourite moment was when the
              Originally posted by hedgehog
              red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

              Comment


              • #8
                Remembrance Sunday

                I am pleased to report that Remembrance Sunday was for the 5th year in a row, properly marked in Co. Mayo. This year, Mass was held in Ballinrobe, complete with RDF honours. A WW1 exhibition followed and there was much press coverage . See the Mayo News, Connaught Telegraph and Western People.

                In 2004 (or maybe 2005) a War memorial and garden will be dedicated in Castlebar. The memorial is being funded by public subscription and the garden is being donated by Mayo County Council.
                Watch this space.

                Also, please diary August 7, 2004, for the dedication of VC grave, Sgt Maj Coughlan VC near Westport. A Militaria demonstration in Murrisk (at the base of Croagh Patrick) will take place also and reenactors, Regimental Associations, vehicles will be taking part!
                Anybody with an interest in "setting up shop" please contact me at dbuckley@anu.ie

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm pleased to hear it. The 170+ Clonmel men and one woman who died in the Great War remain uncommemorated.
                  sigpic
                  Say NO to violence against Women

                  Originally posted by hedgehog
                  My favourite moment was when the
                  Originally posted by hedgehog
                  red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Its very sad that those people who died go unremembered, although I was going to attend one in Fermoy, but due to a medal parade was unable to.
                    May all those Irish how died in conflict rest in Peace
                    Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

                    "Where there is no guidance the people fall, but in abundance of counselors there is victory" Proverbs 11-14
                    http://munsterfireandrescue.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The first VC winner came from Ireland.

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                      • #12
                        Mass was held in Ballinrobe, complete with RDF honours.

                        What RDF unit provided honours?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My guess, given the geographical location, was that it was 18 Inf Bn
                          "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I visited some CWG in donegal last year albeit in a protestant cemetary ......and If I remember correctly my fathers first cousin Flt Sgt jim Norris is burried in Ferrrybank ....waterford...in a CWG...as he was shot down in sept 1944.

                            The fact that Irishmen were killed fighting in somebody elses army makes them no less a hero.

                            The members of waterford corporation who objected to the memorial are well known to be gobshites and are only supporeted by a hard core of like minded imbeciles.:flagwave:
                            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The fact that Irishmen were killed fighting in somebody elses army makes them no less a hero.
                              Would the cause for which they died have any relevance.I mean if they died fighting in the Waffen SS should we honour them?
                              If you honour the soldier do you honour the cause?

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