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Ireland during WW2

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  • Ireland during WW2

    This one's for you Faughanballagh, since you obviously put no research into your comments and persist in writing complete nonsense.

    At the beginning of WW2 Ireland declared itself neutral. DeValera, the taoiseach of the day, met with the ambassadors of the combative nations to inform them of this. When he met the head of the German legation, a Dr. Hempel, he informed him that Ireland would have to show a certain deference to Britain as it was our biggest trading partner.

    Some examples of this deference include:
    1. Allowing thousands of Irishmen to go to the UK to join the British Army.

    2. Providing meteorological reports to the UK, while at the same time denying that information to the Axis.

    3. Interning all Axis servicemen who landed or washed up here, but returning Allied servicemen to the UK. (Some Allied personnel were interned to keep up appearances).

    4. Cracking down on the IRA to prevent them interfering with the British war effort. Many IRA men were interned without trial, some died on hunger strike & I think a few were executed.

    5. Allowing British rescue boats to be based along the west coast. Allowing the British a flight corridor to the Atlantic from Northern Ireland over Donegal.


    These are hardly the actions of a pro-German government, next you'll be telling us that German U-boats were re-fuelling in Kerry.


    As for German spies, the vast majority of them were complete amateurs who were caught within days of their landing. They included a circus strongman and an Indian. The only German agent who was halfway competent was Hermann Goertz, who landed in 1940 and managed to evade capture until 1941.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  • #2
    I challange your point 3. Records show that until 1941 the policy was to inter all beligerants, it was only when the US joined the war effort that Ireland looked at what it defined as a beligerant and decided that those who crash landed on the west coast having flown from the US were deemed to on transport or training missions and therefore were not defined as beligerent. As the war progressed Ireland adopted a policy of leaning towards the Allies and "allowed" allied prisoners to escape or returned them home on "medical grounds". So your point 3 was correct at the end of the war but I doubt very much if it was stated so clearly at the start.

    Comment


    • #3
      The pro German myth arose from De Valera calling on Herr Hempel in 1945 to extend the nations condolences on the death of Adolf Hitler. On the face of things this was a bit out of order but having said that, since we were neutral, Hitler was neither friend nor enemy. Compare to the Irish Army providing a GOH for the Israeli president while his country's army was busy killing our troops in Lebanon.

      If truth is the first casualty of war then the first casualty of diplomacy is honour.
      sigpic
      Say NO to violence against Women

      Originally posted by hedgehog
      My favourite moment was when the
      Originally posted by hedgehog
      red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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      • #4
        Many IRA men were interned without trial, some died on hunger strike & I think a few were executed.

        Local boy here was executed in Portlaois in 1941 or 42. Name of George Plant. He murdered a supposed informer and after his civilian trial collapsed he was tried by military tribunal and executed by firing squad. Against the wall under one of the current sentry posts in Portlaois. Sean McBride was his defence lawyer. He later had the emergency legislation setting up the militray tribunals declared unconstitutional. Another lad from Kerry was executed as well though I've only ever read about him in a book of republican songs.
        Groundhog
        Chief of the Diet Tribe
        Last edited by Groundhog; 20 December 2003, 02:37.
        sigpic
        Say NO to violence against Women

        Originally posted by hedgehog
        My favourite moment was when the
        Originally posted by hedgehog
        red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

        Comment


        • #5
          Ireland during WW2

          Here we go again. This neutrality debate. This is nearly as repetitive as the Steyr optical sight!

          The then Free State did pretend to have a policy of neutrality, the pretence continued when it was realsied what side was likely to win, or if you like when it was realised that Germany was not going visit Dover!
          Ireland maintaind a veneer of "neutrality" because it did not overtly side with any beligerent but did maintain a friendly unneutral bias towards Britain and the Allies.

          Our stance was best summed up by Britain's Dominion Secretary, Viscount Cranbourne, on 21 Feb 1945 when involved in a debate as to whether Ireland should be invited to the inaugurating conference of the UN. He mentioned the following examples:

          A. The arrangement of staff talks to plan against a possible German invasion of Ireland and the subsequent close liaison between the British and Irish authorities.

          B. The similar liaison with British intellegence regarding all aliens resident in Ireland.

          C. The permission given for Allied use of the Atlantic Corridor (Lough Erne through Sligo/Donegal).

          D. Met and submarine reports from around the Irish coast. (note that the met report giving the go ahead for D Day came from Belmullet Co. Mayo)

          E.The internment of all German fighting personnel and the sharpy contrasting treatment of Allied personnell, who by the early stages of the war were allowed to depart freely, and who were given full assistance in recovering damaged aircraft.

          F. The Irish Government's silent acquiesence of thousands of Irishmen who wished to serve in Allied forces and in their returning to Ireland on leave (in civvies provided at British ports)
          N.B. 165,000 citizens joined the British Army alone. This figure included 8,000 Irish Army deserters who realised that they were not going to see action otherwise. This figure does not include, RN, RAF, Commonwealth Forces or US Forces.

          G. The establishment of a radar station for use against the latest form of submarine activity.

          Point to note is that our entry to the UN was blocked by the Soviet Union who maintained that we were not neutral and were anti-communist!

          The cooperation between the Irish military and the US was so satisfactory that the Chief of Staff, Assistant Chief and OC Air Corps were awarded the Legion of Merit. The citation read "exceptionally meritorious and outstanding services to the US in 1943-45"
          The award was decllined in order to preserve our facade of neutrality.

          OK? We were not neutral and we are not. We have successive government who are not prepared to address our responsibilities in this area and who go cap in hand to neighbours when faced with a real threat e.g 9/11 EU summits etc.

          Comment


          • #6
            Didn't the Americans want to award medals to members of the Army and diplomatic service because of their efforts on behlaf of the Allies during the war?

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            • #7
              The Germans must have been seen by many Irish to be allies of sorts, it was only a few years previously we were landing German rifles to use against Britain
              There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today Chatfield
              Admiral of the Fleet David Beatty, 1st Earl Beatty GCB OM GCVO

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              • #8
                I remember talking to a former member of my unit who joined during the emergency. He said that the common thought was that in the event of an invasion they would have to lock up a third of the army because 1/3 were anti british and would have supported a german invasion, 1/3 were pro-ally and would have supported an allied invasion and 1/3 didn't care who invaded they just wanted to fight someone.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by John
                  Didn't the Americans want to award medals to members of the Army and diplomatic service because of their efforts on behlaf of the Allies during the war?
                  DID YOU NOT READ MY SUBMISSION?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Heritage
                    DID YOU NOT READ MY SUBMISSION?
                    DID YOU MENTION THE ACTIVITIES OF IRISH DIPLOMATS?

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                    • #11
                      What did they (the diplomats) allegedly do?
                      Meh.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by yooklid
                        What did they (the diplomats) allegedly do?
                        Discreet diplomatic work on behalf of the Americans.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          With whom?
                          Meh.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by John
                            DID YOU MENTION THE ACTIVITIES OF IRISH DIPLOMATS?
                            I am glad that you read it after all!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Heritage
                              I am glad that you read it after all!
                              I AGREE!

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