Irish Drill

[DeV]

The foot drill manual we have is from the 50s (so written in 50s language - has Irish on one side of page & english on the other (with orders in both languages).

The Arms Drill manual is a lot more up to date as it is based on the Steyr.

We have a drill manual, also, we have two courses dedicated to ceremonial drill.

All DF NCOs are qualified to instruct drill as part of their Pot NCOs Course, if I'm not mistaken this is not the case in the British Army.

[Groundhog]

The foot drill manual we have is from the 50s (so written in 50s language - has Irish on one side of page & english on the other (with orders in both languages)...

So what do you want, a mnul in txt spk?

[concussion]

Dnt bthr 2 lft de knee prrl - it tks 2 mch f-rt

[hedgehog]

So when is this new manual for COFD comming out?

There have been changes to COFD over the years. Yet no up dated manual. So if you are doing a drill movement and someone says you are wrong because its not the way it is in the manual where do you go to get the doc that says it was changed?

WHat changes have there been

In so far as I am aware there has been NO significant

change except - for when you see 'Man or body of men'

but there was a TI out years ago saying

the Masculine is taken to read as the feminine etc etc

[WilcoOut]

We barely have a drill manual. You go into different Barracks across the country and you will find 100 different ways of doing drill.

i second that!

some units in the same barracks have different ways of falling out, in, stopping(ie what foot the stad is given)

i even know of a unit that practised footdrill, deliberatly givin wrong commands for an upcoming event to see how the privates reacted.

queue complete disaster of footdrill, falling, stepping on heels, you name it.

then queue NCO's distributing bollckings for said privates making it look bad

[piper_69]

[QUOTE=WilcoOut;227854]i second that!

some units in the same barracks have different ways of falling out, in, stopping(ie what foot the stad is given)

Most units teach recruits the halt on the left foot to give them time to stop correctly.
This is actually the halt from the double.
The halt from the quick march is supposed to be given on the right foot.

There is a manual of arms drill for the Steyr published in June 1988.

[hedgehog]

i second that!

some units in the same barracks have different ways of falling out, in, stopping(ie what foot the stad is given)

i even know of a unit that practised footdrill, deliberatly givin wrong commands for an upcoming event to see how the privates reacted.

queue complete disaster of footdrill, falling, stepping on heels, you name it.

then queue NCO's distributing bollckings for said privates making it look bad

Those pesky Privates

always getting up to mischief

Now if there was only a means of supervising them and ensuring they do what they

signed up to do

and say if there was a way- we could call it the chain of command

where we appoint COmmanding Officers to supervise there Platoon COmmanders

and we could put in a tier of Ranks called NCO's

wouldnt life be great

and then we wouldnt no couldnt blame the Army

for all the short comings

[luchi]

I know I have been accused of sleeping with my DSOs but I don't have the COFD manual to hand to what changes do I think were made in the last 28 years....

Lets start with falling out troops.

Where is the command in the manual for partial left/right wheel.
What normally sounds like
"Clea gusseeg arigh" ( I am trying to be phonetic here so please no spelling correctors)
There is the mark time.

All relatively minor changes but variations none the same. So if a 3* comes back from the Pots Crse and says "Thats not the way we were shown to do it" do you refer to the, as Dev says, the 1950 manual or is there some more up to date reference.

[rod and serpent]

Do your SNCO`s use pacesticks to drill with.

[Docman]

As stated we do have the manuals- so your wrong on point 1

and the dfferent drill is the fault of the Officers and NCO's in that they are accepting

variations on the Manual

I kind of figure your an Officer/NCO Doc

when you seen these 100 different ways of doing drill

whose attention did you bring it to

if you did then sit back and grin smugly

if you just looked on and tut tuted

then maybe your in the wrong

Hedgie, I'm surprised at you.
Technically, it is not a manual - it is a Training Regulation - TR-620. And I said it was barely a manual, not that we didn't have one.

There are numerous problems with the Irish Drill manual. The Arms Drill manual (an actual manual) is probably one of our better written manuals and very easy to understand & use.

The Foot Drill manual is a nightmare as you have to trawl through it to find what you are looking for, and it is horrendously out of date, using old Irish words which no longer exist. If you want, I can point out exactly where there are problems but I don't think we have the bandwidth. A lot of the easier stuff is ok to read and understand but a lot of it is a nightmare.

2 off the top of my head - Lig amach and Buailig Am.

As for bringing it to someones attention???? Everyone knows it is a clusterF&%&. I have read the manual from cover to cover several times and I cannot be a judge of what is correct and incorrect. Yes, on a lot of things, the manual is quite clear and there is no arguing but on many more it is not clear.

For example, put students from the 3 brigades together and tell them to fall out and then watch 2 different ways of doing..... and noone can prove they are right or wrong because the manual is not clear.

Also, It is a CSs & SMs job to deal with Drill. Not passing the buck but who wants to argue with them? In saying that, I once watch 2 CS's argue about drill - Both had manuals in their hands and both were able to find paragraphs that supported their argument. Take the old drill competitions that used to be run - 5 different ways of doing drill and all get high points.

[WilcoOut]

Those pesky Privates

always getting up to mischief

Now if there was only a means of supervising them and ensuring they do what they

signed up to do

and say if there was a way- we could call it the chain of command

where we appoint COmmanding Officers to supervise there Platoon COmmanders

and we could put in a tier of Ranks called NCO's

wouldnt life be great

and then we wouldnt no couldnt blame the Army

for all the short comings

the only time i see a platoon commander is when a signature is needed. and it aint their fauly, admin snows em under!

it should be known as 'how not to do COFD'.

yet these NCO's seemed to think it was proper training and beneficial

also, can someone clarify the proper way to fall out of ranks?

is it, Lig Amach, then stand still for 3 seconds before dispersing or is it turn to left/right and walk away?

[hedgehog]

Exactly

NO CHange unless reflected by authorised Doctrine

[Docman]

also, can someone clarify the proper way to fall out of ranks?

is it, Lig Amach, then stand still for 3 seconds before dispersing or is it turn to left/right and walk away?

According to TR620, On the order Lig Amach, the NCO will salute and march the troops off the square and fall them out. That is a paraphrase but indicates the level of confusion. An Officers nowadays gives Lig Amach to a platoon and that is the last thing you will see them do.

[WilcoOut]

as in the NCO salutes the Officer after the officer hands in back over to the NCO. iv never seen anything contrary to that

however.

wen said NCO tells the assembled rank to fall out, its lig amach, and then whats SUPPOSED to happen...............(by the book)

[hptmurphy]

There is, or at least was 10 years ago, a Drill course

Dress and Drill course 1997 held at the CTD in Southern Brigade.

Was a serious attempt to put things right, unfortunately guys came off the course back to their units and the units acted as if the course never existed.