Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

jadotVille

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Given that elmost every Defence establishment is named in honour of patriots who surrendered and the Defence Act permiits surrendering it is hard to accept the hang up the MA had about Jaydo.

    Comment


    • They were the fall guys for the people who sent them in to Jadotville.
      The hostage situation that followed was a embarrassing problem for the un,
      May have a being a immature/lack of experience response by the military authorities to real warfare,
      If the men involved in the Niemba ambush had survived they should have being charged with gross negligence. But as things turned out they were given a state funeral.

      Comment


      • Action has to be added to sell the picture to the people that are bank rolling it just like Michael Collins 1,Ned Broy was not killed in reality,2 there were no car bombs in 1921-22 need I go on action sells films. I spoke to a veteran after the film and he said it was 85% accurate & it shows Irish people what these lads went through they were only kids the most of them but Declan Power's story was well told on film in my opinion. Good on the big screen might not have the punch on TV ?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by goc132 View Post
          Good on the big screen might not have the punch on TV ?
          You need a bigger TV

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Shaqra View Post
            Understood but I was referring to the general public. I find the sudden enthusiasm on the part of Joe Public for "righting the wrongs" done to the Defence Forces to be somewhat nauseating. In the 80's and 90's we were abused and villified - not by DFHQ but by Joe Public. The media treated deafness claims as some sort of scam and our meager budget was pillaged for School buses, harbour upgrades and every local scam going. We were binmen, bus drivers (I see that canard is raising it's ugly head again) and tanker drivers. We even had to chip ice off the streets because it the local traders were too bloody lazy to do it themselves. (I had to stop one of my platoon from braining an usher at the Central bank who was trying to instruct him where to sweep the snow).

            Jadotville has been in the public domain for 50 years - where were the press articles, where were in the campaigns in the 60's, 70's and 80's ? The same hypocrites who were happy to shunt their daughters off to the Magdalen laundries and their sons to Artane are the ones who were "ashamed" of the "surrender" of A Company. Irish society - not some obscure agency or bureaucrat - Irish society.

            Forgive the rant - I'm off to renew my Netflix subscription. My aim is to watch Jadotville at least as many times as I've watched Paths of Glory, The Desert Fox and the boxed set of Band of Brothers.
            Round of applause for that man...
            "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Shaqra View Post
              Understood but I was referring to the general public. I find the sudden enthusiasm on the part of Joe Public for "righting the wrongs" done to the Defence Forces to be somewhat nauseating. In the 80's and 90's we were abused and villified - not by DFHQ but by Joe Public. The media treated deafness claims as some sort of scam and our meager budget was pillaged for School buses, harbour upgrades and every local scam going. We were binmen, bus drivers (I see that canard is raising it's ugly head again) and tanker drivers. We even had to chip ice off the streets because it the local traders were too bloody lazy to do it themselves. (I had to stop one of my platoon from braining an usher at the Central bank who was trying to instruct him where to sweep the snow).

              Jadotville has been in the public domain for 50 years - where were the press articles, where were in the campaigns in the 60's, 70's and 80's ? The same hypocrites who were happy to shunt their daughters off to the Magdalen laundries and their sons to Artane are the ones who were "ashamed" of the "surrender" of A Company. Irish society - not some obscure agency or bureaucrat - Irish society.

              Forgive the rant - I'm off to renew my Netflix subscription. My aim is to watch Jadotville at least as many times as I've watched Paths of Glory, The Desert Fox and the boxed set of Band of Brothers.
              Indeed. I remember that stuck up boll$%x and baby killer Cathal O'Shannon on, I think the Late Late show one time, when asked about Jadotville said that they did not have the stomach for a fight.

              Comment


              • " baby killer Cathal O'Shannon " where did that come from

                Comment


                • apparently his tune softened later in life ... this is an article which i think he wrote back in 2006 before he passed away...

                  http://www.irishtimes.com/news/sad-t...nder-1.1022042

                  History: An ill-fated battle by Irish forces serving the UN in the Congo in 1961 still generates unease.
                  In the past 18 months this is the third book to be published about the fight of the Irish UN soldiers of the 35th Battalion in the Katangese town of Jadotville in September 1961. It is by far the fullest account of what became known in the Irish army as the Jadotville Affair, a tragic tale of the surrender by Irish soldiers in an ill-advised battle by UN forces trying to prevent the secession of Katanga from the rest of the Congo.
                  The UN forces' attempt to halt Moise Tshombe's secession by force of arms was messy and unprofessional. Operation Morthor, as it was called, was centred on Elizabethville, while "A" Company of the Irish 35th Battalion was stationed in Jadotville, 80 miles away. The fact that Commandant Pat Quinlan, the CO of "A" Company, had not been told of the impending military operation is still inexplicable and appalling, now, 45 years later.
                  Quinlan and his 150 men had been sent by the UN to Jadotville, an important mining town virtually run by the Union Miniere, to replace twice that number of UN soldiers who had left it a week before Quinlan got there. UN troops were sent to Jadotville on the insistence of the Belgian government, ostensibly to protect the white population of the town. But the truth was that the Belgians there did not want UN troops, were not fearful for their lives, hated the whole notion of the United Nations and were opposed to its ideals and practices. With the aid of white mercenaries and the Katangese gendarmarie, the soldiers of "A" Company were surrounded and cut off from Elizabethville a week after they got there.
                  Ill-equipped and short of rations and intelligence about what was going on, Quinlan nevertheless took the logical and forthright precautions of digging in and entrenching his men in weapon pits, so that by the time the gendarmarie and the Katangese army attacked them - with the enthusiastic support of the huge majority of the white population - they were able to put up a stiff defensive resistance.
                  They were not only outnumbered by perhaps 10 to one, but their water and electricity were cut off and they were mortared on the ground and bombed and strafed from the air for four days before they agreed - sensibly in my opinion - to a ceasefire and eventual surrender. They were then imprisoned by the Katangese for weeks on end before being eventually released. Their casualties for the battle were five wounded. They may have killed up to 200 Katangese and wounded many more during the fighting.
                  Rose Doyle's book includes daily - sometimes hourly - details of the battle. And why not - she is, after all, Pat Quinlan's niece and has had access to his journals, his letters home, his subsequent writings and, most importantly, his radio log during the fighting and afterwards.
                  The UN decision to send men to Jadotville was wrong and should not have been allowed to happen . The company was ill-equipped for its task. Efforts to relieve the besieged men failed on two occasions.
                  The radio log between Quinlan and his superiors in Elizabethville clearly shows the desperation with which he appeals for reinforcements. Time and time again he asked his superiors for help "...in ainm Dé, in the name of God...", only to be told that attempts to get reinforcements through had failed.
                  In the end he was forced to concede to ceasefire talks with his enemy, talks which rapidly turned to surrender. Similar talks were going on in Elizabethville on the whole Operation Morthor, but only the Irish at Jadotville surrendered and were taken into captivity.
                  QUINLAN EMERGES FROM this book as a prickly character, utterly dismissive of the capabilities of UN civilian and military authorities. He justifies his surrender on the grounds that his men would have been wiped out if the fighting had gone on, and there is no doubt that their losses would have been great.
                  Yet for the rest of their lives Quinlan and the men who fought at Jadotville were tarnished by their action in giving in. The men were sneered at by other Irish troops, and for years their reputations suffered. Their surrender was seen by many in the army and in Irish politics as shameful. For years the army itself appeared to airbrush the whole incident from history. No one, it seemed, wanted to know the facts - that Quinlan had fought a good fight, that the UN had made a cock-up in sending these men to this town, that they had failed signally to relieve or reinforce them. Pat Quinlan is dead. I only met him once, when he looked at me quizzically in a bar in an Athlone hotel and said: "I suppose you don't want to talk to me?" We were both embarrassed at our encounter. Officers who served with him during the dreadful days of the fight have done a great deal to see that his name is honoured or at least not traduced. The army at home has done something, just a little, to make amends for its omissions.
                  Quite frankly this is a naturally partisan account of this whole affair, as seen and told by and about the men of "A" Company, who suffered so much. It is clear that the author does not accept that her uncle's reputation as a good soldier has been upheld, and there is a distinct feeling diplomacy has seen to it that those who should be named remain anonymous. Are there still heads to roll? The sense of unease about Jadotville, alas, remains.
                  "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                  "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by apc View Post
                    " baby killer Cathal O'Shannon " where did that come from
                    Tail gunner RAF Bomber command

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                      apparently his tune softened later in life ... this is an article which i think he wrote back in 2006 before he passed away...

                      http://www.irishtimes.com/news/sad-t...nder-1.1022042
                      Good, But like me plenty heard his original dismissive comment and did not come across his more understanding comments above.

                      Comment


                      • Tipped down to Carlow to see it, great production, sadly cinema fairly empty.

                        Comment


                        • Watched it in Dundrum today. Well worth seeing, paddywackery kept to the bear min
                          PS
                          Nice to see a Tricolour on a C130

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by danno View Post
                            Tipped down to Carlow to see it, great production, sadly cinema fairly empty.
                            Same half empty cinema in Mullingar, film was great though.

                            Comment


                            • I just saw it in Cork, Cinema 3/4 full, to an appreciative crowd (frequent shouts of "French pricks!") and a round of applause when the credits rolled.

                              If I knew nothing about the army, or the story, it was an excellent action film. It told the bones of the story well. Irish Army sent to the Congo by UN in what was really a PR stunt by cruiser. Irish Unit sent somewhere they were not needed nor wanted. Attached by better armed militia but held their ground thanks to the actions of its officers and NCOs, and of course its young inexperienced privates. No support came from HQ, nor UN.
                              But the thing that did bother me about the film was the Depiction of Mdme Lamonfagne. Contrary to the film not only did she provide her phone for military use, she also provided mediation service, and her home became part of the HQ. The total absence of the Owner of the Purfina garage is also a huge gap, as it was him who initially warned Comdt Quinlan of the presence and activities of militia.Swedish Army interpreter Lars Froberg, should also have been portrayed in some manner, as he was in Jadotville throughout.
                              Baldonnel looked far sunnier than usual also

                              But it was a good movie, and it was nice to hear an audience of Irish civvies applaud the depiction of the actions of the Irish Defence force on the big screen.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • In the film, the unit were using a mixture of 303s and FNs,??? was this the case.

                                ( Know they used 303s with a scope up to the 70s for sniping)
                                sofa
                                Major General
                                Last edited by sofa; 24 September 2016, 23:42.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X