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  • Statues

    So last week, the statue of a prominent slaver in Bristol was dumped in the river. There have been ongoing plans to remove the Statues of Confederate Generals from public buildings throughout the USA, and in recent days, a number of statues of Columbus, who "discovered" America (he didn't, he was just the first European to make a big noise about it) have also ended up in the sea.
    Baden Powell in the UK has been taken down for his own protection (there are plans to do so anyway) as he was a huge supporter of many of Hitlers views, as well as the whole Boer War starving the native workers to feed the whites during the Seige of Mafeking thing.
    Is it time to revisit our own history? As mentioned elsewhere there was some discussion about John Mitchell, United Irishman, who decided slavery was a great thing, after his escape from Van Demens Land. Some controversy too about the statue of Sean Russell(veteran of 1916) in Fairview park, who died aboard a Nazi U-Boat while en route to assist German spies in the Irish Free State, having been trained by Abwehr in Germany in the use of explosives in Sabotage.
    Are any of our 1916 leaders free from modern Criticism? Thankfully, Sir Roger Casement has been redeemed somewhat in recent times from attempts to darken his name due to his sexual orientation. Belgium has removed the statue of King Leopold (who caused much suffering to the people of the Belgian Congo) and who came in for huge criticism from Casement.

    Are there any other Irish Heroes who need to be airbrushed from history due to their actions not being compatible with modern standards of common decency?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  • #2
    Sean Russell

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-39277402.html


    Tried to overthrow the State by force of arms is ok.... but not if get assistance from the Nazis

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm sure there a few who would want to remove memorials to De Valera due to the regressive social and economic policies he implimeneted.

      Comment


      • #4
        The problem I have with this is where do you stop?
        Slavery didn't just start after the discovery of America, Do you get rid of statues of the various Roman Emperors that are around the world, and what about the monuments around the world that were built by Slave Labour in Ancient Times. It's a lot more complicated then what people think but I can see this turning into a History vs Modern argument in the same way that Science vs Religion did in the past.
        It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
        It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
        It was a new age...It was the end of history.
        It was the year everything changed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
          I'm sure there a few who would want to remove memorials to De Valera due to the regressive social and economic policies he implimeneted.
          Theres some who'd want to get rid of De Valera because he signed the book of condolences for Hitler
          To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

          Comment


          • #6
            It's certainly an idea worth considering.

            I would be in favour of setting up a committee of unelected representatives to look at all prominent statues in the country. They could rate the historical figures that those statues represent, according to certain criteria.

            Those who rate below a certain score could then be pulled down and ignominiously cast aside, to be replaced by more progressive figures and/or works of modern art.

            I'd be wary of and probably try to steer clear of consulting the public on this - my feeling is that too many don't know what's good for them.

            Once this has been achieved and all undesirable statues have been replaced we can gradually move on to prominent street names, certain elements of the school curriculum, and so on and so forth. Best not to take on too much at once - slow and steady wins the race.

            Comment


            • #7
              There is a campaign (albeit a small one, led by an occasional councillor), to rename some of the streets of cork that are named after Victoria, Albert or anyone the particular individual feels should be, to use the modern phrase, "cancelled".
              The fact that Cork now has a Victorian quarter is particularly irksome to him (but nobody else).
              A similar campaign in another Cork town by SF councillor to rename some of the Elizabethan streets after 1916 Patriots (even though every local authority estate in the land is already named after them.
              Who gets to decide?
              Should we stop listening to Wagner because Hitler was a fan?
              German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
              German 2: Private? I am a general!
              German 1: That is the bad news.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                There is a campaign (albeit a small one, led by an occasional councillor), to rename some of the streets of cork that are named after Victoria, Albert or anyone the particular individual feels should be, to use the modern phrase, "cancelled".
                The fact that Cork now has a Victorian quarter is particularly irksome to him (but nobody else).
                A similar campaign in another Cork town by SF councillor to rename some of the Elizabethan streets after 1916 Patriots (even though every local authority estate in the land is already named after them.
                Who gets to decide?
                Should we stop listening to Wagner because Hitler was a fan?
                IS that the ghoul who wanted to rename the English Market?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                  IS that the ghoul who wanted to rename the English Market?
                  Probably. To do so would be to delete the whole history of the main tourist attraction in the city centre, and forget the fact that the traders of the English market continued to feed the people of Cork throughout the Famine.
                  German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                  German 2: Private? I am a general!
                  German 1: That is the bad news.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                    Probably. To do so would be to delete the whole history of the main tourist attraction in the city centre, and forget the fact that the traders of the English market continued to feed the people of Cork throughout the Famine.
                    But it's got "English" in it, so clearly it must be bad and be removed...Same shite that I know some of the tourist ladies get in Cobh for dressing up in period clothes because they are "Victorian"...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We should really nuke the pale as a minority there discriminated against the rest of the country and majority of the population

                      The rest of the country should subsequently be nuked as they discriminated against the pale

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Statues

                        If they genuinely offend then remove them
                        If they are part of the evolution/heritage of a nation then treat them as such
                        Place them in a museum and provide some objective educational context to explain why they are there

                        On the other hand there is of course the Nelson approach
                        Last edited by Orion; 11 June 2020, 21:05.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Fr Rice in Callan is responsible for a lot of hardship over the years in Every Christian Brothers run school in the country. What about him?
                          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                          German 2: Private? I am a general!
                          German 1: That is the bad news.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            We should really nuke the pale as a minority there discriminated against the rest of the country and majority of the population

                            The rest of the country should subsequently be nuked as they discriminated against the pale
                            As Cork was a slave transportation hub like Liverpool was. maybe PC to come up with a new name for the place.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Cork was not a slave hub. It was a convict hub. Subtle differences.
                              German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                              German 2: Private? I am a general!
                              German 1: That is the bad news.

                              Comment

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