Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Germany win or lose

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    [sorry, computer here in the web cafe acting up]
    was a colossal waste of resources, troops that were guarding the camps could have been sent to the front, huge amounts of ammunition was wasted executing the unfortunate inmates etc.

    on the question of gas warfare (i dont think this has been dealt with yet), germany was the world leader. "a higher form of killing" (jeremy whatshisname from bbc co-wrote it) has a major chapter on german capabilities.if hitler had been mad enough, he could have had the UK in serious trouble, having had major quantities of sarin, tabun etc which the allies only found about after the war.


    i think the only way germany could have competed with the industrail resources of teh usa (and, to a lesser extent, the uk), would have been to keep on taking over nations (and their attendant industries) while at the same time having been geared up for "total war" from the beginning. "total war" did not kick in for the german economy until late 1943. the problem with trying to take over as much as possible to keepo their economy going is- what if they were delayed in their timetable for taking various places over?that probably would have screwed them up badly.


    my 2c for now
    "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

    Comment


    • #32
      the bomber offensive could have been fought smarter and with better results, however.
      The strategic bombing campaign was seriously overrated at the time - it had minimal impact on war production until well into 44 when the war was lost.

      As for gas, I seem to recall reading that Churchill was an enthusiastic proponent of the use of chem weapons, had to be disuaded by Alanbrooke among others.

      i think the only way germany could have competed with the industrail resources of teh usa (and, to a lesser extent, the uk),
      The USSR was the main industrial rival to Germany as well as the main military one - the industrial evacuation east of the Urals was a monumental achievement as was Soviet industrial output, which, like their military performance, eventually subsumed Nazi Germany.

      on the question of the concentration camps, yes, the allies did know about them (and indeed they were even photographed by aerial recce planes, people being seen in queues for the gas chambers).
      You're confusing "concentration camp" with "death camp" -there is a significant difference. I don't know the figures but I wd doubt if the Endlosung really distracted that much from Germany's operational and strategic performances...use of rail transport wd probably be the most glaring example.

      huge amounts of ammunition was wasted executing the unfortunate inmates etc
      Inmates of camps were not murdered in large quantities by shooting - this was mainly done by Einsatzgruppen following on the heals of the Wehrmacht (and sometimes by Wehrmacht soldiers)in 1941 & early 42.
      "Hello, Good Evening and Bollocks..."

      Roger Mellie

      Comment


      • #33
        Combatlogo-

        yes, youre right about churchills enthusiasm for gas, he was really up for the use of it in case of a german invasion, if he had his way the RAF would have put down the entire UK stocks of various gases in less than a week in an "all or nothing" gamble.


        i will concede your point on the Einsatzgruppen, i just have mass execution by shooting in my head for some reason, could be the atrocities in russia.

        i think you are agreeing with me on the issue of strategic bombing, the United states strategic bombing survey, and, to a lesser extent, the british equivalent, confirmed that this was the case. i believe a 6% loss in overall production can be attributed to the bombing campaign. perhaps if the "oil plan" had been persued earlier or if harris had been forced to concentrate solely on this, the war MIGHT have ended earlier. loss of the oil fields wasa major blow to the germans, bombing of their synthetic oil plants made things worse
        "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

        Comment


        • #34
          But as already mentioned elsewhere,the rest of europe was not too keen to defend the Jews either...There was a strong Distrust of them throughout europe. Anyone hear of the limerick Pogrom?


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Goldie fish
            Anyone hear of the limerick Pogrom?
            Tell us all about it.

            Comment


            • #36
              The Limerick Pogrom

              There was an interesting programme on tv last night covering Jewish migration into Ireland. The most sickening revelation to me was that only a small number of people who were fleeing the holocaust were allowed to settle here. That and the fact that Dev paid his respect's to the German ambassador on the death of A.H.

              "Having fled from persecution in Lithuania, a small number of Jewish tradespeople began arriving to Limerick in 1878. They initially formed an accepted part of the city's retail trade, centered on Collooney St. The community opened synagogue and a cemetery in the 1880's. Easter Sunday of 1884 saw the first of what were to be a series of sporadic violent anti-Semitic attacks and protests. A Jewish woman was injured and her house damaged by an angry crowd. In 1892 two families were beaten. In 1904 a young Catholic priest delivered a fiery sermon castigating Jews as "international moneylenders" and demanding freedom for the Irish peasant. He urged Catholics "not to deal with the Jews". The Limerick Pogrom was the economic boycott waged against the small Jewish community for over two years. Limerick's Protestant community, many of whom were also traders, supported the Jews throughout the pogrom, but ultimately Limerick's Jews were forced from the city. Many resettled in Cork City, the home of Chaim Herzog, later the sixth president of Israel."

              http://limerick-city.wikiverse.org/
              Support the Search Function.

              Comment


              • #37
                There are still No Jews in Limerick. Former Mayor of Cork,Gerald Goldberg,was one of the families who left Limerick back then,and wiped the dirt from their shoes.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • #38
                  very nice

                  Much as this lesson in Irish/jewish history interests me (and it does i aint being sarcastic) can we get back to the point because this is way off.
                  :D :D please those who have more of this kind of info and those who have already potsed the previous info start a new thread on it as i would like to know more. when you do let me know.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    A plan for germany to win

                    . First off continue the war as it did up to Dunkirk. at that point the Whermacht should have been allowed to destroy the bef. At the battle of britain they should have finished the raf when they had the chance. Hold britain at bay and if possible take it. With no BEF and with Britain under threat of invasion there would have been little or nothing to oppose the africa korps. Procede with operation barbarossa but start early enough in the year and if required delay by a year for the summer to come back around. Ivade the caucasus from the middle east. at Stalingrad (if you even go there) Paulus made a mistake that many forget. He had the Russian army that would later defeat him caught in a pincer trap. All he had to do was close the door and the russian army was finished (outside the city) in much the same way as the 6th army later in the war.
                    However paulus took an unneccsary rest stop and allowed th russians to escape. Of course Hitlers incompetence was mainly to blame for stalingrad. After this point it becomes hard to predict can anyone else continue this little (possible) story.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Stalingrad was fought with zeel because Hitler wanted it more then anything, think what a crushing blow it would have been to Stalin personally, if his forces lost the city named after himself.

                      I sense a second purge.

                      And a possible Stalingrad conflict taking place in Moscow.
                      It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Was Zeel a german secret weapon?


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Yes, its up there with gile.
                          It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Serious thread here folks, the dumbass posts can go someplace else...
                            .
                            .
                            .
                            With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                            Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The killing tour of reserve police battalion 101

                              will concede your point on the Einsatzgruppen, i just have mass execution by shooting in my head for some reason, could be the atrocities in russia
                              Stameen I think this may be because you are thinking of the Killing tour of reserve police battalion 101.
                              Doctors instructed on how to humainly kill with a shot to the back of the head but soldiers often missed shots and became covered in blood.
                              To distance his men fom the bodies (dont know commanders name can someone fill that) the cmndr formed firing squads.
                              Aftera certain point the men were regularly required to kill babies and many made themselves drunk before loading their guns.
                              Next the battalion took machine guns to Mjdenick and officers blared music to drown out the noise. next the music moved to Sarahomla 14,000 died. by the time the tour finished more than 30,000 men women and children had been killed by a battalion of less than 500 men.
                              This is an exerpt of info on the most depraved and (scarily) efficient reserve police battalions that carried out such disgusting attrocities.
                              :(

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                sorry mistake in that figure

                                My mistake not 30,000 more than 19,000. Doesnt make it any nicer though.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X