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tyovan4's research paper on the IRA

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Without going through the document and pointing out every error,as already well covered by others,I see two major problems here:
    1. In attempting to cover the "IRA" You have attempted to cover the entire history of Ireland,the various rebellions,uprisings and other violence. You can not expect to cover all these properly,unless you are willing to write a much longer paper.

    2. Sources? Where did you get your information? If you wish to get any sort of a decent result,regardless of the topic,you need to use credible sources,and demonstrate where you used them. Few educational establishments accept the word of a website. I can show you a website that tells of US special forces using a secret airbase in rural Ireland,but it does not make it the truth.

    Tim Pat Coogan wrote a pretty factual book about the IRA some years ago. Get it,and rewrite your paper,based on the facts found within that book.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steamy Window
    replied
    about the "armed uprisings"...

    '98- the big one.
    '03- riot in a Dublin street.
    '48- firefight in a cabbage patch.
    '67- nothing much happened afaik

    Penal Laws were repealed in 1829, no mention made of that.

    The Normans didnt invade, Dermot McMurrough offered them a working holiday in Wexford and they decided not to leave.

    Queen Elizabeth I died in 1603, I think you mean James I. The land was not suddenly seized, as is the impression given in the essay, but rather it was a culmination of years of plantations- eg that of Laois/Offaly under Mary I. Flight of the Earls 1606- basically the gaelic chieftans gave up their claims and left for spain

    Oliver Cromwell arrived in Ireland in 1649 and stayed until the next year, stopping occasionally to subdue towns such as Drogheda, Clonmel and Wexford.

    British troops, afaik, only came onto the streets of NI at the end of the battle of the bogside (aug '69)

    Curragh Muitiny perhaps??

    Leave a comment:


  • Docman
    replied
    Originally posted by stameen soldier
    what about the split in the split in the Irish Volunteers in 1914 over WW1? No mention of that, and I think that was of some significance...

    Oh silly me, forgot about that.

    Ok changed it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steamy Window
    replied
    what about the split in the split in the Irish Volunteers in 1914 over WW1? No mention of that, and I think that was of some significance...

    Leave a comment:


  • Docman
    replied
    Ok, I have read the essay and attached it to this post. My comments are in red (I didn't want to do it all over the board).
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • FMolloy
    replied
    I've seen a couple of Provo arms dumps & talked to those who found them. Even with the effort the Provos put into things there was numerous instances of ammo degrading beyond use, and none of it would have been as old as the Phoenix Park ammo would have been at the time of the border campaign. I'd doubt very much if the Officials could have kept their stuff in better conditions than the Provos.

    In any case, I didn't make the claims so I don't have to provide proof.

    Leave a comment:


  • SPOOKY
    Guest replied
    Dunno about that.

    THE USArmy AAR about weapons capabilties in iraq reported that some SF snipers were using WWI era .50cal for the Barret 50 sniping rifle and that it wokred well........

    To be objective, unless you know what conditon the Shinners may or may not have stored any ammo supplies in (and have proof of this) then who is to say that your more or less right or wrong than anyone else on this matter.

    Leave a comment:


  • FMolloy
    replied
    As I've said, the PDF only had 36 SMG's in stores, so the amount of ammo held for those weapons wouldn't have been huge. The border campaign didn't kick off until 1956, seventeen years after the Magazine Fort raid. I don't think the ammo would have 'kept' for that amount of time, especially giving the less than perfect conditions it would have been stored in.

    Leave a comment:


  • SPOOKY
    Guest replied
    Aye, but was the point not that there was no 9mm ammo taken - rather it was 45.cal for the Thompson sub machine gun, whcih was used in the border campaign attacks of the 1950's?

    At least I do recall reading something mentioning that particular calibre of rounds.

    However these may not have nessecerily(spelling?) have come from the Magazine Fort raid........
    Last edited by ; 28 April 2005, 13:46.

    Leave a comment:


  • FMolloy
    replied
    I'd advise you to spend the afforementioned time doing research, because if you rely on the your current info you'll continue to talk out of your hole.

    What the IRA wanted to do with the ammo & what they actually did with it are two seperate things, smart arse. According to UK's National Police Officer's Roll Of Honour (www.policememorial.org.uk) and the RUC memorial site (www.royalulsterconstabulary.org) only five RUC men were shot in political violence between 1939 and the beginning of the IRA's border campaign that kicked off in 1956.

    So either the ammo was used in at least one of those shootings (and you have proof of this) or the IRA sucessfully stored it for 17 years & then used it in the border campaign (and you have proof of this).

    Or, more likely, you're spouting bullshit.
    Last edited by FMolloy; 27 April 2005, 23:01.

    Leave a comment:


  • JAG
    replied
    Originally posted by FMolloy
    Also, what proof have you that ammo that originated in the fort ended up being fired at RUC men? Sounds like bullshit to me.
    If I could bother my arse spending a couple of hours or days researching it, I'd tell you what proof there was. And there are some things I don't even bother disputing.

    As it stands, I think I'll get much greater satisfaction from just pointing out that WHAT THE FCUK ELSE DO YOU THINK THE IRA ROBBED A SIHT LOAD OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION FOR?

    hunting wascally wabbits, perhaps?

    Leave a comment:


  • FMolloy
    replied
    The only thing silly here, JAG, is you making claims without checking your facts.

    The Magazine Fort in the Phoenix Park was raided by the IRA in December 1939 & small arms ammunition taken. The bulk of that ammo would have been .303in for rifles & machine guns. The Gustav didn't enter service with the PDF until the 50's, and Adrian English's 'Irish Army Order of Battle' states that only 36 SMG's of varying types were available, so I don't know where you got 'millions of rounds of 9mm ball' from.

    Also, what proof have you that ammo that originated in the fort ended up being fired at RUC men? Sounds like bullshit to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • JAG
    replied
    Don't repeat DO NOT want to get into silly arguements over facts I haven't checked. The corrections I made to Tyovan's essay were from memory, so I'm not going to cry too much if they're wrong. But, having said that:

    1: I'll take your word for it.
    2: Truth being the first casusalty etc- we'll never know for sure. Point was the picture involved more than a massacre at a GAA match.
    3: It happened. And the rounds were later used in the troubles.
    4: I stand corrected
    5: A book called Rebel Heart I read over ten years ago. The author did a tour around Belfast with Martin McGuiness, and got a load of first hand statements from IRA men and former RUC/BA personnell. An anonymous statement is not the most reliable source in the world. And I could be mixing up two books again.
    6: My mistake.

    Hang on- armed terrorists attacking a military installation have a right to life now? You go out with the intent of causing harm, and harm comes to you, what the fcuk have you got to complain about, except the fact that the other guys were better prepared than you. Compensation? Bollocks. I don't see the IRA, LVF or any other terrorists on either side of the divide handing the proceeds of various fundraisers out to the families of the 3,000 odd.

    7: Nope, no confusion. Sinn Fein view their seats in Dail Eireann as a big joke, and that is apparrantly common knowledge in Leinster House. Not sure what TD's do before taking their seats and couldn't be bothered checking, but Sinn Fein TD's do it with their fingers crossed, and they make sure everyone sees their fingers crossed.
    8:According to this site
    http://forum.politics.ie/viewtopic.p...nd+republicans
    CIRA and Republican IRA are one and the same, it appears.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rooster
    replied
    Originally posted by combatlogo
    The Loughgall attack was not "lunacy" on the part of the IRA, they had destroyed a station at The Birches using the same plan, huge bomb in a digger. The station was manned on a part-time basis and was not manned when Lynagh's gang attacked, a fact they were aware of. Some of them got out and started shooting off rounds as an act of bravado then they detonated the bomb in the digger, blowing the station to pieces which acted as a signal for the boys from Hereford to unleash some serious lead. Some Provos claim a 9th terrorist was there, who knows? As R&S says, it was a great op, unfortunately the Hughes brothers got caught in the middle. As for Blair's Govt's craven decison to pay compensation to the relatives of these scumbags on the basis of a European Court of HR decison, pass the sick bucket. Big Boys' games, big boys' rules.

    True, the tactic had proved itself to be effective on previous occasions, the station at Loughgall was supposed to be unmanned that night but a few adrenaline junkies in the regiment decided they would rather be in the station during the attack, how the **** they survived is anyones guess.
    Agree totally with your comments on the compensation thing, strange that members of murdered security forces have never been offered compensation. :confused:

    Leave a comment:


  • Steamy Window
    replied
    4: There was also an IRA raid on the Garda magazine in the Phoenix Park, when millions of 9mm ball was stolen. And later turned up in the corpses of RUC men.

    3. The raid in the Phoenix Park was either during the Civil War or right after it, was not during the WoI.

    This raid- on the Magazine Fort- took place in December 1939. Most, if not all, of the stolen ammunition was recovered, and then some more. An IRA radio transmitter was also seized.

    Leave a comment:

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