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  • #31
    So we don't look to get better kit because some people are mongos?

    Doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all.

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    • #32
      How many had wrecked their new boots by bulling them before having to be told not to bull them? Even though the boots came in a box with care instructions and a tube of boot polish?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
        So we don't look to get better kit because some people are mongos?

        Doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all.
        Sounds to me the NCO's are the mongs if this is the case

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        • #34
          Originally posted by apod View Post
          Let's face it.Most of our lads are either too lazy or apathetic to bother finding out how things work properly and will just wear something as it's handed out from stores.Now the system is to blame also as we don't do educating our troops on new items of personal equipment well.Yes a TI might be drawn up but unless a training course is mandatory and the info doesn't get diluted then they tend to slip through the cracks.The amount of lads who haven't a clue how to properly fit the new sling or how to employ it is ridiculous for example. No. The more complicated you make an item for the average grunt the more of a bag of ham they are going to be IMHO.
          I'll say a few things in reply to that:
          1. Not a good enough reason to not develop/improve/modernise kit or clothing. By that maxim we would still be in bullswool uniforms and .303's (something DoD would probably be delighted with not having to buy every increasing expensive kit)
          2. Yes, system probably to blame for not educating personnel how to properly use kit and equipment. But that means system needs to be improved rather than holding back devolopment or capability. Unfortunately, this sign is a poor reflection on commissioned and non commissioned leaders in our system if it cannot be fixed.
          3. Funny how strictest safety / training standards kept up for weapons and other such items of kit but we can't maintain them when training personnel to wear / deploy personnel issue items of clothing / kit??

          Despite the comments above Apod, what specifically is so complicated on the Felin combats?? Still intrigued for an answer.
          Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

          And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

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          • #35
            I'll say a few things in reply to that:
            1. Not a good enough reason to not develop/improve/modernise kit or clothing. By that maxim we would still be in bullswool uniforms and .303's (something DoD would probably be delighted with not having to buy every increasing expensive kit)
            I am all for modernising our kit.But the more bells and whistles you put on something the more complicated it becomes(for some) and the less likely it is to be used correctly.

            2. Yes, system probably to blame for not educating personnel how to properly use kit and equipment. But that means system needs to be improved rather than holding back devolopment or capability. Unfortunately, this sign is a poor reflection on commissioned and non commissioned leaders in our system if it cannot be fixed.
            Totally agree.Systemic laziness is at fault.For example other armies issue user guides everytime the issue new kit.We don't.A TI will be produced for big ticket items and sit on the IKON as, lets face it, no young fella is gonna be arsed to look it up.
            3. Funny how strictest safety / training standards kept up for weapons and other such items of kit but we can't maintain them when training personnel to wear / deploy personnel issue items of clothing / kit??
            It comes from on high and filters down. BSM's have a big part to play.They are supposed to set dress policy in a unit.How many actually do?The DF is great at telling us what to wear but not how to wear it.
            Despite the comments above Apod, what specifically is so complicated on the Felin combats?? Still intrigued for an answer.
            Too many straps,zips and buttons IMHO.
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by apod View Post
              I am all for modernising our kit.But the more bells and whistles you put on something the more complicated it becomes(for some) and the less likely it is to be used correctly.
              .
              And expensive

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              • #37
                Soldier-proof is the term a lot of people should be using.

                There used to be a very good set of pullouts in Connect. Part of the great thing about these was that they became the de-facto standard ( e.g. for the Standard Course Gear Packing List or whatever ).

                It's worth noting that it wasn't JUST because it was an NCOTW thing but in addition it's because Connect has a much wider circulation - it gets seen by Privates and it gets pinned on walls , it's still Hardcopy.

                A simple set of basic ordnance pullouts "This is the CBA", "these are the components of the IPLCS", "IPLCS Packing" and so on . Doesn't replace recruit training but does complement and act as tacaide.

                One could have a repeating schedule of these probably every 36 months as new kit comes in
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                • #38
                  I agree. That was the way to go.The "TACAIDE" feature in the Cosantoir started out this way but seemed to have missed that point.Instead of handy reference guides to how for example to shape a Beret we got why saluting is important and how to get a grid reference. Both of which subjects are better being taught as practical lessons
                  Back when the DPM uniform last changed(2 years later BTW) their was a connect poster showing the various "new" tops and telling us how that they were better than the old kit.It never explained WHY they were better or how the items should be worn to compliment each other.
                  Lost opportunities all around.
                  "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                  • #39
                    Totally agree with you Trellheim. The Connect pullout for uniforms, webbing, etc. were great.
                    In fact, I stashed these useful ones. The ones on wear of DPM uniform I scanned and used the photos in a PowerPoint presentation for classroom instruction of recruits to our unit, for instance. Also like the idea of these being given used on bulletin boards for reference. As Apod says, when will the average Pte be able to sit down and access IKON to reference this stuff. More to the point, how many would have access to same?
                    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                    • #40
                      btw most recent connects are available here ( see the toolbar)

                      http://digital.jmpublishing.ie/i/567...ter-march-2012

                      but I do stand by the hardcopy . In fairness though most units I've been in get a fairly robust supply of Connects so all we need is people doing the content !

                      I mean how hard can it be to do a battlevest breakdown every pouch strap and belt
                      Last edited by trellheim; 3 January 2017, 23:33.
                      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                        .... mean how hard can it be to do a battlevest breakdown every pouch strap and belt
                        Sounds like one for NCOTW or Inf Sch on behalf of D J7 to me....
                        "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                        • #42
                          Differs from unit to unit as to what to put in the pouches

                          There was an NCOTW one in Connect for the Std NCOs Cse

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                          • #43
                            Surely it should be uniform, with only differences that are corps specific?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                              Surely it should be uniform, with only differences that are corps specific?
                              Pray tell, why should it be uniform across an entire Corps or organisation as a whole?

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                              • #45
                                Have there been any whispers of changing the CBA at all?
                                Last edited by Captain Edmund Blackadder; 4 January 2017, 23:13.
                                Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

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