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  • Don't forget the "bury them on DF property" option.
    Has worked well for us in the past with 37 pattern webbing, wool overcoats, churchill tank, aircraft etc...
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

    Comment


    • The Churchill that was buried in the Glen of Imaal in 1967 was excavated and recovered in 2002/3.
      It was then given to North Irish Horse Regiment, the only Irish Tank regiment and is on display at the barracks in Dunmore Park in Belfast.

      Comment


      • It was an AR wearing it. The amount of pockets on the sleeve looks insane
        Sir I cant find my peltors........Private they are on your face

        Comment


        • French Felin T4 uniform is the way to go.

          Stop messing up / around with our uniform and just go with our DPM on their clothing design.
          Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

          And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

          Comment


          • Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
            French Felin T4 uniform is the way to go.

            Stop messing up / around with our uniform and just go with our DPM on their clothing design.
            You do realise the French are getting rid of that uniform and going to this.
            http://foreignlegion.info/2018/01/04...rm-since-2018/

            Now.If they are going to insist on ditching the chest pockets on the shirt then having a UBACS style pocket on BOTH sleeves would be the way to go. A couple of points though.Where would you store your pens then? Move the pens pocket to the lower left sleeve like on the new smock? Then you wont be able to use it if you wear the sleeves up. That wouldn't go down well. Possible solution would be to have the pen pocket inside the UBACS pocket. Also why include velcro panels on the sleeve pockets and then stitch the tri-colour above them? Kinda defeats the purpose.
            Anyway check out the picture in this article on the new US Army Hot weather uniform for an example of how to do it right.
            https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...ather-cammies/
            Last edited by apod; 3 August 2019, 12:07.
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

            Comment


            • My point is the features on the T3 / T4 uniforms are very useful and well thought out from a practical point of view:
              Detachable hood, under arm ventilation zips, flush chest pockets (T4), shorter length, poacher rear pocket, UBACS sleeve pockets, elbow padding inserts.
              All and all, a much neater, useful design with or without CBA and battle vast.
              The matching trousers are equally well thought out. These practical features should be imported to our uniform (or just use the same design instead of trying to put the usual Irish slant on something that already works perfectly well)

              While the current combat uniform was a massive jump ahead from the OGs it is looking and wearing quite dated now. All we are really doing to make improvements is tinkering with an old design.....zips on pockets or not, trouser pockets angled forward / back.
              Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

              And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

              Comment


              • New DPM Smock
                Detachable hood,(Check) under arm ventilation zips, flush chest pockets (T4),(Both omitted) shorter length,(Check) poacher rear pocket,(Check,but inside) UBACS sleeve pockets,(Check) elbow padding inserts.(Omitted)
                Four out of seven isn't bad.
                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by apod View Post
                  New DPM Smock........Four out of seven isn't bad.
                  Nearly never won the race!!!

                  Seven out of seven would have been better!? It's a pity we missed an opportunity to have a significant jump forward with the re-design.

                  Under arm pit zips.....opportunity lost for individual climate control.

                  Poacher rear pocket...good to see re-introduced. but may be under-utilised, anything in it will push into wearer as opposed to external pocket that would bellow away from wearer like current combat pockets...which were a major improvement over previous issue.

                  Elbow padding inserts.....again opportunity lost. Integral inserts should be norm for jackets and trousers not just preserve of SOF. Does away for need of issuing separate sets of elbow / knee pads which may give cost savings and ensures personnel are always wearing bump protection.

                  But to give the new smock its due, the included changes are improvements. Hopefully the trialed combat trousers will be the norm too.
                  Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

                  And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

                  Comment


                  • So is there a general consensus on the board as to what is a must in a uniform?

                    Pit zips
                    Elbow/knee pad inserts
                    Slanted pockets
                    Poacher pocket
                    Arm pockets/velcro biceps
                    Helmet with rail attachments (not sure what these are called)
                    Multiple boots for multiple AORs
                    Detachable smock hood
                    Shirt for barracks/ubacs for tactics
                    Zips instead of buttons
                    Press studs instead of buttons
                    ?

                    I kind of see that among other armies there are things that are essentially standards that we don't have but there are things that some have and some don't. So is there a single uniform solution?
                    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                    And whistled early with the lark.

                    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                    He put a bullet through his brain.
                    And no one spoke of him again.

                    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                    The hell where youth and laughter go.

                    Comment


                    • Is a bigger problem not the material?

                      Whatever it is about the last few issues it is extremely warm and isn’t hard wearing enough??

                      Difference in the day c2002 and c2016 issues is unreal. The winter 2002 are cooler than the 2016

                      Comment


                      • Definitely there is an international trend to better fitting, slimmer profile uniforms. The days of combats being baggy, loosely fitted garments are long gone. Increased use of CBA and vehicles has probably had a big influence to reduce snag hazards, pressure points, etc.

                        To your list I'd add these Buck:
                        Form fitted garments
                        must designed to assume CBA worn over it always
                        Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

                        And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

                        Comment


                        • Lads. I know the gym gods amongst us just want uniforms that are bate onto them to show off their muscles but let's not forget why uniforms are meant to be
                          "Worn loose and in layers".
                          You can't fit layers under uniforms that are form fitting. Simple as. That was one of the reasons we went with a baggy smock in the first place. I for one would prefer to be warm during the colder months rather than just looking good.

                          Let's also look at uniform wear. We don't need an all singing,all dancing smock with hundreds of features. Most of us wear UBACS these days in the field with or without a baselayer depending on the climate.The GSBA tends to keep you warm enough anyway .When you are static you throw on the smock and layers under as required. If you go to the range the UBACS has padded sleeve inserts so no need for elbow pads on the smock if worn over the UBACS.

                          Pit zips are a nice to have.Not a deal breaker.And the more zips you put on a garment the more expensive it is.Let's be real. DoD will always spend as little as possible and the DFCC must find a balance between what they want and the money DoD will allow to be spent.A poachers pocket IMHO is useless. If worn with a battlebelt/GSBA you cant access it if it is on the outside and you can access it even less if inside.Also it is extremely uncomfortable if packed when sitting in and APC seat for example.

                          Bicep pockets are a must these days.No further explanation required.Why these were omitted off the new waterproofs is a mind boggler.

                          The newer shirts(2016 up) etc are made from a much lighter material. No comparison with the 2010(OK but still very warm) and 2012(Plastic bag!!Really wide sleeves)). However the 2016's and 2017's are cut more like a shirt(closer fitting and shorter) than the older models. The 2018 type appears to be more of a jacket style cut.

                          I do agree that one boot for all occasions is a bad idea.Great in theory but no good in practice. I can see A LOT of boots being purchased by soldiers again.At a time when they don't have that kind of money to spare.
                          Last edited by apod; 5 August 2019, 17:16.
                          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                          Comment


                          • Just had a look in the wardrobe imho the Carra/Seyntex 2003 material is much better than 2014 Seyntex NV. They are cooler and better wearing, also a better fit

                            Comment


                            • Apod: my list wasn't meant as a list of must haves as such, more just what people are suggesting.

                              I have a German fleck desert shirt here at home and they have put vents rather than zips.

                              Good alternative?
                              I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                              Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                              Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                              And whistled early with the lark.

                              In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                              With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                              He put a bullet through his brain.
                              And no one spoke of him again.

                              You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                              Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                              Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                              The hell where youth and laughter go.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Buck View Post
                                Apod: my list wasn't meant as a list of must haves as such, more just what people are suggesting.

                                I have a German fleck desert shirt here at home and they have put vents rather than zips.

                                Good alternative?
                                I would have to agree.Like I said they are NICE to have rather than NEED to have. Incidentaly the 2001 trials DPM waterproofs had pit zips.

                                The hood being being detached on the new smock is trade off.The original study group report on the DF Combat uniform way back in the late nineties recommended a fixed hood as opposed to the detachable one of the time.The thinking being that if the hood was detachable most people would leave it behind and then wouldn't have it if needed. Now. Situational awareness aside there are many times when a hood comes in handy.Like static VCP's for example or escorts when you might be getting in and out of vehicles all day and don't have time to take off all your kit to throw on waterproofs if the weather turns.
                                The trade off comes because of the proposed new Body armour. Hoods snag in body armour collars. Mandarin collars don't.
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                                Comment

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