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  • Single boot concept

    In the absence of actual proper info from the DF Press office,DJ4 and Ordnance branches let's do what soldiers do best and speculate.
    It is a loosely guarded secret that the DF are purchasing/have purchased a new boot IE the Haix Scout model.
    What is NOT known is pretty much everything else.Mainly due to no articles in the Cosantoir or the so called "Newsletter" Connect (published every 3 months and limited to a couple of pages).Every other Military in the western world publicizes new equipment coming on stream.Sometimes a couple of years in advance.Some even do so online. Keep the troops informed , good for morale etc etc.
    Not here though.Here we get rumours and conjecture. Why is this bad?I will explain in a bit.

    First the rumours.
    1/ Haix scout boot.An ankle high,nubuck and cordura boot will replace the current Haix ,full grain leather,Operational boot.

    2/ Haix scout boot will replace BOTH the current Haix operational boot AND the Magnum Light Operational barrack Boot.

    3/ Haix scout boot will be worn both Overseas and at home.

    4/ Haix scout boot will only be worn "on the ground" with Black barracks being retained for,barracks?

    5/ Soldiers will be issued one pair of Haix scout boots and they will be used for all activities except ceremonial. One pair.That's it.

    6/ Haix scout boots are only to be issued for overseas.

    Now.Anybody with IKON access can read the Minutes of the DF Clothing Committee,but they are scant on detail. So pretty much no help. So why are the above points an issue?

    First off.Troops are still forking out their hard earned money on private purchase boots.As we all know this is for a variety of reasons.Comfort,breathability,waterproofness etc etc. Of course no one told them to do this and theoretically issue tissue is fine in except in many cases it's not.
    The current Magnum Light Op/Bk boots cook your feet on a summer trip to the Leb for example.of course that's because the issue desert boot was withdrawn and the lads forbidden to purchase their own.Which makes tons of sense when you consider that the lads in the hills who patrol night,noon and morning are wearing feet boilers and the handful of Irish staffers in Shama(Sector West HQ) are all wearing Desert boots!!
    So.Lads go out and buy lighter black boots to try to avoid foot problems.Only snag is the supposedly incoming new Haix boot is Brown! Lads will have forked out money for nothing.

    The other issue are no brainers also. One pair of boots for all activities?? Really? So.Troops are supposed to wear the only pair of boot they have all day doing Platoon in attacks on a Standard cse for example.Up to their bollox in mud and water and then change into what when back in camp? The other pair of boots they are not issued? Or a soldier is supposed to wear his one pair of boots all week when doing exercise troops for the cadets and then wear the same scuffed,smelly boots when on duty in Bks on the Saturday? Anyone else see a problem with that? Whatever happened to rotating your boots to give them a chance to dry properly?

    Also.Nubuck.Really? Not bad for breathability if worn as a patrol boot in the Leb or indeed for wear around camp,but how many bogs do we patrol through out there?How many Section attacks on your belt buckle do we do there?(Fingers crossed no). I can see maintenance being a problem with the single obligatory tube of Haix cream being issued with the boots initially(if even) andf then lads being forced to source whatever comes handy as the local shoe shop doesn't stock it.Cue boots ruined with normal polish just to keep the BSM off lads backs for having "dirty" boots.

    As for Brown boots for the ground and black for Barracks.Why? Why not just settle on one or the other.Keep things simple.It might upset the dinosaurs if we change to brown but look back far enough and the DF had brown boots BEFORE black became a thing.

    So.Rant over. What are the take aways?
    1/ Why is their zero news coming out about this most basic but perhaps one the most importants parts of a soldiers kit??We knew about the DPM's 4 years before FFS!
    2/ What can leaders tell the troops to do or not to do regards purchasing boots when there is no info there to aid them in giving direction?
    3/ Is this a false economy? Short term cost cutting vs long term potential foot problems?
    4/ Is duty of care for the troops being f***ed out the window by expecting them to wear one pair of boots all the time with no option to change if they get wet etc?
    5/ Are we setting troops up to fail by issuing a high maintenance boot when the item they need to maintain them is not readily available?

    Opinions please.
    Last edited by apod; 9 August 2018, 11:09.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

  • #2
    The whole thing is a mess, it's as bad as the 'naval DPM' that is still being pushed by some money wasters.
    Go back to issuing a good low-cost light op desert boot for overseas in hot climates, Lebanon, Syria and Mali. Job done and the troops are happy.
    Wearing heavy goretex leather boots no matter what colour they are in 40o Lebanese summer is going to boil feet.

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    • #3
      Go back to issuing a good low-cost light op desert boot for overseas in hot climates, Lebanon, Syria and Mali. Job done and the troops are happy.
      I have never understood why people get hung up on doing simple stuff like this. Is it hot climate - yes - heres a desert boot. If not - back to black , mgnums and Haix
      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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      • #4
        Are these new boots Goretex (or similar)?


        Why no info? No one has decided?

        Comment


        • #5
          Boots must be job/mission specific....... and pardon the pun but one size doesn't fit all!
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • #6
            The whole idea was to save money.Instead of buying multiple different types of bot that were only good for a specific task.Great.In theory.

            Having said that the new generation Goretex was specifically designed not just to keep your feet dry but to keep them cooler too.
            ePTFE is being put into a alot of the newer desert boot models because of this.
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

            Comment


            • #7
              Whens the Navel DPM coming on stream??

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              • #8
                https://www.gov.uk/government/news/d...w-combat-boots

                British Army now have 5 types (no doubt there are different models under each heading)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Herald View Post
                  Whens the Navel DPM coming on stream??
                  Hopefully never but the clowns behind it are pushing it hard and will likely get their way.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                    Hopefully never but the clowns behind it are pushing it hard and will likely get their way.
                    "International best Practice" Eh? Funny that the Yanks just wadi'ed their Bluebottle uniforms 'cos the only thing they blended in with was the sea when you fell overboard!!

                    But I digress.Back on topic.Just spotted this.
                    http://www.joint-forces.com/products...ut-combat-boot
                    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Something occurred to me when reading the post above. The MOU we signed with Britain... would this not cover situations like this, i. e. The British have done the legwork in terms of investigating boot upgrades, and instead of the British MOD ordering 200,000 pairs of cold temperate boots at unit cost X, they order 250,000 pairs at unit cost X, and the Irish DOD pick up the tab for the 50,000 pairs. Instead of the above situation where Irish taxpayers' hard earned moolah has been expended, reinventing the wheel. Just my 2c worth...
                      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                        Something occurred to me when reading the post above. The MOU we signed with Britain... would this not cover situations like this, i. e. The British have done the legwork in terms of investigating boot upgrades, and instead of the British MOD ordering 200,000 pairs of cold temperate boots at unit cost X, they order 250,000 pairs at unit cost X, and the Irish DOD pick up the tab for the 50,000 pairs. Instead of the above situation where Irish taxpayers' hard earned moolah has been expended, reinventing the wheel. Just my 2c worth...
                        Could do the same with uniforms, until hi-vis tricolours are required on the border

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          Could do the same with uniforms, until hi-vis tricolours are required on the border
                          Didn't someone say there might be a review of the unifrom DPM pattern in the near future?
                          "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yep.Apparently the patent on our current pattern runs out in 2 years.
                            Board due to sit to look into what way to proceed.Wing are looking for Multicam,considering they can be tasked to go to any environment at short notice it kinda makes sense for them.
                            For us.I am not convinced.
                            Our pattern is one of the better ones out there and identifies us straight away.Two many forces wearing Multicam or derivatives of same at the moment.As the saying goes "Once everybody is special,no-one is".
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Which is grand until you need to blend in

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