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  • #16
    The other important thing for boots for the corps units of course is that they must be compliant with the en standard for safety toe protection,

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Exile View Post
      The other important thing for boots for the corps units of course is that they must be compliant with the en standard for safety toe protection,
      Apparently there is a safe toe boot on trial also.Kinda puts paid to the whole single boot concept that though.
      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by apod View Post
        Our pattern is one of the better ones out there and identifies us straight away.
        I presume you mean when there's a multitude of different nations troops together in a non tactical or UN type gathering??? A corporate identity, so to speak.

        A more focused question would be does the pattern work to actually hide troops in tactical environments at home or abroad? Then i want something that actually works rather than identifies the "Irish looking shrubbery lurking around in the field over there".

        After that is answered I'd then suggest that if camoflague is the priority then the options are two-fold:
        1. Go with multicam type dpm because its been proven to work and camoflague troops in various terrains.
        2. Accept that Irish dpm works in Ireland (fine) but doesn't work in the middle east or africa (not fine). Then you have to issue an arid climate version to work in the areas we are mostly commonly going (probably not fine for DoD accountants!)
        Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

        And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

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        • #19
          Keep in mind that the majority of our overseas deployment will have us driving white vehicles while wearing blue covered helmets and body armour, and it may be the case that the current pattern is fit for purpose, except for those few occasions when an arid climate version may be needed.
          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
          German 2: Private? I am a general!
          German 1: That is the bad news.

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          • #20
            We do have an arid desert pattern, probably good also for summer in the Middle East.
            http://camopedia.org/index.php?title...esert_dpm1.jpg

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            • #21
              If we want our friends the Swedes and Finns are through NORDEFCO currently with the other members tendering for a new Nordic Combat Uniform and it might be possible to join or take the same uniform system (if not the pattern).
              http://www.nordefco.org/commonuniform

              And before someone asks, no I do nt know if it will be covered by PESCO.

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              • #22
                UK Multicam looks very effective.... noticed it recently on some tv program I was watching.

                Its going to be hard to come up with some 'different' without looking like someone elses.

                No point to re invent the wheel regarding boots. Safety boots are fine for second line and in barrack work or at sea after that buy what everyone else buys.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                  UK Multicam looks very effective.... noticed it recently on some tv program I was watching.

                  Its going to be hard to come up with some 'different' without looking like someone elses.

                  No point to re invent the wheel regarding boots. Safety boots are fine for second line and in barrack work or at sea after that buy what everyone else buys.
                  UK multicam is effectively multicam mixed in with the old British DPM pattern. Could surely be done with the current style of Irish DPM.

                  Then again, it might end up looking like a dog's dinner!

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                  • #24
                    I presume you mean when there's a multitude of different nations troops together in a non tactical or UN type gathering??? A corporate identity, so to speak.
                    Precisely.Not just limited to non-tac though.Having an easily recognisable pattern can also be an aid to force protection.Look at the issues the 1st Tpt Coy had in Somalia when wearing american "Chocalate chip" dessies. Brexit could also causes issues for us with a possible return to border patrols.


                    A more focused question would be does the pattern work to actually hide troops in tactical environments at home or abroad? Then i want something that actually works rather than identifies the "Irish looking shrubbery lurking around in the field over there".
                    Our current pattern works fine in temperate conditions.Not great in arid conditions.


                    Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                    Keep in mind that the majority of our overseas deployment will have us driving white vehicles while wearing blue covered helmets and body armour, and it may be the case that the current pattern is fit for purpose, except for those few occasions when an arid climate version may be needed.
                    You would think wouldn't you. ARW looked for the Dessies for Chad.Bean counters refused citing "force protection" as an excuse as they supposedly didn't want us looking like the French in Desert gear.This despite the fact that the French lads were wearing temperate CE Camo out there As for Temperate Irish DPM being fit for purpose in arid climates.Dark colours retain heat.Lighter colours don't. Go figure.
                    Safety boots are fine for second line and in barrack work or at sea after that buy what everyone else buys.
                    NS are having serious problems with their current issue boot at sea.Cooking the lads feet.They are going to look for a replacement to go with their new vanity project uniform apparently.

                    Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                    UK multicam is effectively multicam mixed in with the old British DPM pattern. Could surely be done with the current style of Irish DPM.

                    Then again, it might end up looking like a dog's dinner!
                    Swiss army are looking to do the same with their current pattern and multicam.Doesn't look too bad either but nothing like MTP though.Closer to their own pattern.
                    Last edited by apod; 6 December 2020, 09:20.
                    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                    • #25
                      NS are having serious problems with their current issue boot at sea.Cooking the lads feet.They are going to look for a replacement to go with their new vanity project uniform apparently.
                      You could visit any comercial supplier and trial any amount of types and someone will always have some problem....and you could probably have them hand made if they got off the idea about naval DPM...if you need to be invisible aboard a ship you hide in a fan room or in the steering flat..and snore quitely!!!!
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • #26
                        Do you think the camo pattern made a difference in Somalia though? I can't imagine the locals looking through binos and going "nah Mohammed, it's ok these are IRISH foreign invaders here to support the UN, and by extension foreign colonial powers, leave them go." "How do I know?" "Well if you look at the dark brown, black, and shades of green, while it looks similar to the French dogs, it's actually quite distinct"

                        Any photos/links to the Swiss project?
                        I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                        Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                        Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                        And whistled early with the lark.

                        In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                        With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                        He put a bullet through his brain.
                        And no one spoke of him again.

                        You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                        Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                        Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                        The hell where youth and laughter go.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Buck View Post
                          Do you think the camo pattern made a difference in Somalia though? I can't imagine the locals looking through binos and going "nah Mohammed, it's ok these are IRISH foreign invaders here to support the UN, and by extension foreign colonial powers, leave them go." "How do I know?" "Well if you look at the dark brown, black, and shades of green, while it looks similar to the French dogs, it's actually quite distinct"
                          I agree to a point

                          Not sure if the US were the only ones with chocolate chip in Somalia.... but they weren’t part of UNOSOM II AFAIK

                          Of course then the went to French (Franklin?) uniform in OG (as used with UNIFIL (or was UNOSOM II the first use?)), not sure if there was French with UNOSOM II or in Somalia - of course one thing worth nothing is the Irish was the only contigent not to take any casualties.

                          The Irish pattern is very similar to the French TBH

                          My personal feeling is that maybe we should just go for someone else’s pattern and buy off the shelf, which would probably improve supply, design and quality issues and drastically reduce costs.

                          Any photos/links to the Swiss project?
                          ?
                          Last edited by DeV; 15 August 2018, 18:07.

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                          • #28
                            Do you think the camo pattern made a difference in Somalia though? I can't imagine the locals looking through binos and going "nah Mohammed, it's ok these are IRISH foreign invaders here to support the UN, and by extension foreign colonial powers, leave them go." "How do I know?" "Well if you look at the dark brown, black, and shades of green, while it looks similar to the French dogs, it's actually quite distinct"
                            In a word.Yes. The first time the Irish were contacted out there it transpired afterwards that the Somali militia mistook them for Americans.My cousin was one of the lads there that day and he and the rest of the people who were there are some of the few DF to have fired in anger overseas in the last 30 years.
                            Any photos/links to the Swiss project?
                            Yup. http://iacmc.forumotion.com/t12429-n...s-armed-forces or you can just google "Swiss Army MBAS".




                            Of course then the went to French (Franklin?) uniform in OG (as used with UNIFIL (or was UNOSOM II the first use?)), not sure if there was French with UNOSOM II or in Somalia - of course one thing worth nothing is the Irish was the only contigent not to take any casualties.
                            UNOSOM 2 were the first to wear what later became the "Franklin" uniform.The first ones were actually French F1 uniforms that the irish purchased as a UOR from the French Foreign legion whom they shared a camp with in Baidoa.
                            The Irish pattern is very similar to the French TBH
                            Not as much yellow/loam.

                            My personal feeling is that maybe we should just go for someone else’s pattern and buy off the shelf, which would probably improve supply, design and quality issues and drastically reduce costs.
                            Nah.I like the fact that our pattern is ours.
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                            • #29
                              Swiss stuff is normally good quality but unlikely to be combat proven and will be expensive

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                              • #30
                                Anyway.Thread drift.Back on topic folks.
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                                Comment

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