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  • op boot is still garbage
    .

    Honestly. I don't think that's fair. The Scout is a fine boot but it was purchased to fit in with parameters dictated to fit in with an agenda which was to reduce costs by only issuing one boot for both home and overseas,field and Barracks. So it was being expected to be all things to all people. Which we all know was never going to work.

    I feel sorry for the procurement people.They were ordered to push this through by someone who obviously wouldn't listen to good advice and prioritised penny pinching over the welfare of the troops. The ultimate irony being that he has long since retired and won't have to bear the brunt of his shortsightedness. Now Ordnance procurement are trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear by changing orders mid contract in order to get us a Barracks boot while being locked into a contract and constrained by an agreed budget. Not good.

    Could we have done better. Certainly. If the parameters had been different. IE if the direction had been to purchase both a heavier Operational boot and a Lighter Bks boot. For example the new Barracks/Light OP boot ,if it is non Goretex ,should be fine both colour wise and in terms of breathability for overseas use in hot weather and at home around Bks.
    An all leather Operational boot with a waterproof membrane could then have been purchased for more robust use and inclement weather. I can't see the scouts being suitable for lets say, an NBG Exercise in Sweden in winter,too light and porous.

    Anyway.we have what we have now.And won't be able to change things for a while. Hopefully the issue of the new Light OP/Bks boot will alleviate some of the issues.Like only having one pair of boots to wear on all occasions such as at present.

    Last edited by apod; 11 December 2021, 10:30.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

    Comment


    • New operational boot light is non goretex lined.

      Comment


      • I picked up a pair of the Bundeswehr issue.

        In general, comfortable boot, I love the quick lacing system, very breathable. In terms of waterproofing, when going through fields with wet grass with the dog, they leave a lot to be desired. I've used Nikwax Nubuck and Suede Proof, but still, I think these are a Spring, Summer Autumn boot, but in winter, I'd take a pair of Lowa Combat GTX's any day of the week!
        What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

        Comment


        • I never got the 72Hr TacEx rule for issue of Haix.
          Now its the same for UBAC aswell.
          We wear armour on range and some ex that are less than 72 hr so i dont get it.
          Ive already bought a pair of Scouts but does anyone know the reason the 72 hr rule came in

          Comment


          • Originally posted by koppiteal View Post
            I never got the 72Hr TacEx rule for issue of Haix.
            Now its the same for UBAC aswell.
            We wear armour on range and some ex that are less than 72 hr so i dont get it.
            Ive already bought a pair of Scouts but does anyone know the reason the 72 hr rule came in
            3 days? Full training weekend?
            "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by koppiteal View Post
              I never got the 72Hr TacEx rule for issue of Haix.
              Now its the same for UBAC aswell.
              We wear armour on range and some ex that are less than 72 hr so i dont get it.
              Ive already bought a pair of Scouts but does anyone know the reason the 72 hr rule came in
              Cause everyone know the RDF are too hardy to get cold, wet or need proper foot & ankle support for the first 71 hours









              cost

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                Cause everyone know the RDF are too hardy to get cold, wet or need proper foot & ankle support for the first 71 hours
                The standard RDF troop is bulletproof, bombproof and waterproof

                What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                Comment


                • but does anyone know the reason the 72 hr rule came in
                  to have some element of "you'll get them if you need them" . The first case an RDF man taking a case of an ankle injury will result in them being general issue I'd say.

                  That aside I'm struggling with the cold/wet argument - yes it used to be an issue but not the last few years , everyone should have snugpaks and pool raingear for all, the coldest I've been in green has been sitting in a dry shed doing stuff
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                    to have some element of "you'll get them if you need them" . The first case an RDF man taking a case of an ankle injury will result in them being general issue I'd say.

                    That aside I'm struggling with the cold/wet argument - yes it used to be an issue but not the last few years , everyone should have snugpaks and pool raingear for all, the coldest I've been in green has been sitting in a dry shed doing stuff
                    Up until this year you had to have 18 months effective service and be involved in a 72 hr ex to be issued a Snugpak. I can’t remember which requirement was removed.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                      Up until this year you had to have 18 months effective service and be involved in a 72 hr ex to be issued a Snugpak. I can’t remember which requirement was removed.
                      I think it's whichever comes first these days but will confirm. As for the 72 hour rule. Simple reason. Commitment. Only issue the Gucci stuff to those who demonstrate the commitment to the organisation by completing arduous taskings such as 72 Hrs straight Field exercises.Not to the one camp wonders or tea drinkers. Remember though that this rule was brought in back in the day when people would join before the summer. Do the camp.Get paid,get grat and fcuk off never to be seen again along with their kit. Goretex boots aint cheap ya know.

                      Having said that is it time to update the rule. 100%. Different organisation now.
                      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by apod View Post

                        I think it's whichever comes first these days but will confirm. As for the 72 hour rule. Simple reason. Commitment. Only issue the Gucci stuff to those who demonstrate the commitment to the organisation by completing arduous taskings such as 72 Hrs straight Field exercises.Not to the one camp wonders or tea drinkers. Remember though that this rule was brought in back in the day when people would join before the summer. Do the camp.Get paid,get grat and fcuk off never to be seen again along with their kit. Goretex boots aint cheap ya know.

                        Having said that is it time to update the rule. 100%. Different organisation now.
                        I do see the point but if the State expects a recruit to do a exercise or operation without adequate what could be termed PPE …. And then retain them…

                        it’s a double edged sword

                        of course the other part of it is that it isn’t supposed to be issued to admin/logs personnel…. Who still get cold and wet

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                          I do see the point but if the State expects a recruit to do a exercise or operation without adequate what could be termed PPE …. And then retain them…

                          it’s a double edged sword

                          of course the other part of it is that it isn’t supposed to be issued to admin/logs personnel…. Who still get cold and wet
                          Nature of the beast. Mainly a problem of the AR's (or FCAs) creation. People joining up and disappearing with hundreds of euros worth of kit once they got their first pay. If you were SSO Procurement would you want to throw money down the drain?? I'll wager not. Anyway. That issue really should be in the past as the enhanced screening measures to join up tends to weed those people out these days. Those that stay deserve to be kitted out. We do the same in the PDF. A recruit gets an "Induction issue" which is just the basics.If they survive the first few weeks we give them a reduced "Recruit issue". They only get the more expensive kit once they get to the Tactical phase of training at which stage they are unlikely to go.

                          Even after all that they don't get certain items until they are a 3* Pte.

                          As for AR Admin/Logs people being kitted out for exercises. I agree. It's penny pinching. People in those roles tend to have been around a while.So have demonstrated their commitment. Having said that you would have to ask yourself why a Senior Sgt or Cpl or a CS or CQ would not already have been issued the kit for having being on the ground for 72hrs on EX?? We all know there are people in those Ranks in the AR who have never gotten cold,wet and dirty. Hell.Some have never even done the course to qualify them to call themselves by that rank. Do they deserve an issue of Gucci kit to sit around drinking tea??
                          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by apod View Post

                            Nature of the beast. Mainly a problem of the AR's (or FCAs) creation. People joining up and disappearing with hundreds of euros worth of kit once they got their first pay. If you were SSO Procurement would you want to throw money down the drain?? I'll wager not. Anyway. That issue really should be in the past as the enhanced screening measures to join up tends to weed those people out these days. Those that stay deserve to be kitted out. We do the same in the PDF. A recruit gets an "Induction issue" which is just the basics.If they survive the first few weeks we give them a reduced "Recruit issue". They only get the more expensive kit once they get to the Tactical phase of training at which stage they are unlikely to go.
                            absolutely

                            but it could also be a factor in some of them leaving as well (seeing their instructors with access to issue good quality warm etc kit)

                            The other part of it is units not collecting the now PW kit from those individuals.

                            a unit I know of around 2013/14 was making AR recruit keep all their kit in barracks (not sure how that worked for washing and ironing) and no lockers, for ,I think, a number of months after the issue. Not the worst I’d but….



                            Even after all that they don't get certain items until they are a 3* Pte.
                            it’s 18 months for some RDF

                            As for AR Admin/Logs people being kitted out for exercises. I agree. It's penny pinching. People in those roles tend to have been around a while.So have demonstrated their commitment. Having said that you would have to ask yourself why a Senior Sgt or Cpl or a CS or CQ would not already have been issued the kit for having being on the ground for 72hrs on EX?? We all know there are people in those Ranks in the AR who have never gotten cold,wet and dirty. Hell.Some have never even done the course to qualify them to call themselves by that rank. Do they deserve an issue of Gucci kit to sit around drinking tea??
                            Depends on how long they have been in rank and not many coy plus level exs to go on.

                            to a degree I’m making excuses yes but it is also reality

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                            • ... anyway, back to the topic. Said before and will again... not sure why the DF didn't go for a brown leather Goretex lined boot. Am thinking that the Scouts might not be a long term boot in the DF inventory myself
                              "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                                ... anyway, back to the topic. Said before and will again... not sure why the DF didn't go for a brown leather Goretex lined boot. Am thinking that the Scouts might not be a long term boot in the DF inventory myself
                                Oh Jesus.Is anyone reading my posts?? Simple.They wanted a boot that was light enough to be used in hot climates abroad whilst also being able to be used on island. So a full grain leather boot was never going to be in the running to be selected.
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                                Comment

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