Good Kit

[kaiser]

Is it h&s even if their cleaned??
Sometimes there can be health and safety run amuck in the df

[Truck Driver]

Is it h&s even if their cleaned??
Sometimes there can be health and safety run amuck in the df

I would say so, Kaiser. Once upon a time, the drill was for a section's water bottles to be shared in turn. Now, it's each to their own. Why? Risk of cross infection. This was mentioned in an article about one of the overseas missions a couple of years ago, Chad, I think....

[apod]

Hydration systems should not be pooled as bite valves are in contact with the mouth.
When we were issued Hydation packs in Liberia we were all issued a new bladder to fit inside. The old ones were handed back into the CQ by the outgoing Coy.

[X-RayOne]

Gotta recommend this item of kit as good investment for those looking for a warm layer operating on a budget.Part of the new BA PCS.Light olive in colour.Waterproof zips throughout.Pit zips,foldaway light hood,drawcord neck.Velcro cuffs and hem.Chest pocket that doubles as a stuff sack.two side pockets leading into large tunnel pocket.NOT the old style "wooly" buffalo shirt lining.Microfleece designed to wick away sweat and keep you warm.Showerproof pertex outer.
Seriously light and compact item.Can be worn over a t-shirt and under a smock or with a norgie(new type) for extra warmth.
Well worth the money.Two caveats:Its no where near as warm as a softy.But its not meant to be.Softies are for when you are static.This can be worn on the move if necessary by opening all the zips.Second they are a tight fit.If you are a large normally go for an XL or the sleeves will be too short.
Here's the link.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRITISH-AR...item84c12d9f8c

so if not as warm as a softie, can it be taken not as warm as the traditional Buffalo also?

i find smock type insulation and waterproofs so much better than normal full front zip garments but find Buffalo too warm in anything but the coldest weather if you are mobile.

just wondering for both military and civvy mountaineering activities.

[apod]

so if not as warm as a softie, can it be taken not as warm as the traditional Buffalo also?

I couldn't say as I was always a Snug jacket man.Didn't ever go down the Buffalo route as I didn't like the "woolly" type lining.Buffalo shirts are meant to be worn next to bare skin in order to work 100%.
The new type BA thermal smock is designed primarily to be worn when static and in conjunction with other layers.I also have the BA Norgie replacement PCS thermal shirt.Personally I find the combination roasting but a nause to wear together as the fleec lining on the smock catches on the fleece on the outer of the thermal shirt when donning particularly around the sleeves.Cue lining getting caught up around your armpits.
Now the combo of our own new type Norgie which has it's microfleece on the inside and the thermal smock is great.
The thermal smock can also be worn over a driflo under a DPM smock when active.You cant do that with a softie as you would die with the heat build up.
Perhaps ou BA members here can give more opinion on the BA thermal smock and shirt?

[Buck]

Got one of those thermal smocks Apod is talking about and I find it the dogs bollocks. Warm when static but not too roasting when on the move. The inbuilt stuff sack is great and when the zips are open it's good and cool.

Only downside is that the sizes are on the small side and when putting the smock on over a long sleeve layer, the long sleeves underneath ride up and can be awkward to fix.

[X-RayOne]

did your Mammy never teach you how to catch your school shirt sleeve with your thumb and finger before putting your jumper on??



seriously, sounds like it could be the perfect balance between the Snugpak and Buffalo.

[Buck]

I tried but it seems to twist around! Annoying but by no means a deal breaker!

[Truck Driver]

Was on the ranges last week and a combination of wet gear, smock and Snugpak jacket kept me as warm as toast...

[REX]

Was on the ranges last week and a combination of wet gear, smock and Snugpak jacket kept me as warm as toast...

SNAP! Just got home from Kilbride and the issue wetgear, longjohns and a snugpak, importantly topped off with an elmer fudd hat, kept me dry and warm on one of the worst days for years. definitely the worst day I ever fired on.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

i'd give you the verdict on our new thermal kit but mine is still waiting for me in the stores. when i actually collect it i will let you know.

for now i've been getting by on the PCS jacket and smock with the issued Softee when cold and it's proper toasty - too toasty to be anything other than being static.

[Truck Driver]

...importantly topped off with an elmer fudd hat...

Yup, hope to get issued with one sometime soon. The privately purchased Thinsulate green wooly hat with fleece inner did very nicely though...

[ropebag]

...Perhaps ou BA members here can give more opinion on the BA thermal smock and shirt?

the smock thing, the one that looks like a Buffalo, is a pretty good garment for being on the move (to some degree) in cold weather. the buffalo and the softie are too warm for that, and so conversely you would not be overly warm if stood about on a range in December all day in the thermal smock - its a good addition to your arsenal, but its not the wonder top that does everything.

the commercial equivilant is the Buffalo Techlite smock - i've hade one for donkies years for climbing, and its a very versatile top - what its not is for standing about in cold places. in Scottish winter climbing conditions, for example, i would wear a long sleeve baselayer under it, and a gore-tex hard shell over it. if i didn't, i'd be bloody freezing...

i used the thermal smock in Afghanistan last winter - temps between +5c and -15c or so - it was fine on a foot/VB patrol over a baselayer, and under a smock and body armour, and more comfortable/less sweaty under about +2c in all that clobber, but if you stopped for more than a few minutes in under -3c or so you'd want to lob a softie on as well. at -15c it was, if not useless, then nearly so. i personally think it stops being 'better' than a Buffalo Special 6/Mountian Shirt at around -5c if you're on the move, and if static(ish) at about -1c.

my own view is that its a mistake in military terms - because we always wear either a windproof smock or waterproofs on top, we don't need whats underneath to be windproof as well, all it does is take up weight/space and make you sweaty rather than warm. being an old fart, the words that leap to my mind are 'woolly' and 'jumper'...

the problem we have of course is that we do a job that can go from carrying massive weight at warp drive to sitting in a ditch for a week in five minutes - no one garment is going to be able to cope with that...

[apod]

my own view is that its a mistake in military terms - because we always wear either a windproof smock or waterproofs on top, we don't need whats underneath to be windproof as well, all it does is take up weight/space and make you sweaty rather than warm.

I "Liked" your post overall but I am a little stumped as to how you are getting to this.Softy jackets and Buffalos along with the aforementioned PCS thermal smock are all covered with Pertex.IE a windproof outer and we have being using these for years.Also my thermal smock when stashed into its chest pocket takes up less room and compresses down better than my old softy jacket.
I know the official DCT line is that the Thermal smock is what you put on when static and Osprey is removed but I also know lads wear it when patrolling also in bad weather.If I was out doing anyting that didn't allow wearing waterproofs I could wear that under a smock and It will help keep me dry longer and certainly warmer than just a smock and baselayer!I wish i had had one on my STD NCO Cse!!
Also I would agree.It's nowhere close to a softy for standalone warmth but when teamed with a proper baselayer and a midlayer such as a norgie it's toasty.

[ropebag]

I "Liked" your post overall but I am a little stumped as to how you are getting to this.Softy jackets and Buffalos along with the aforementioned PCS thermal smock are all covered with Pertex.IE a windproof outer...

oh i know that, what i mean is that because we only use it as an insulation layer (we can use it as an outer layer, but we 'have' to lob a jacket over it..) a purely insulation garment doesn't need a weather resistant componant, because its not exposed to the weather.

now, it happens to be convienient that it has weather resistant qualities because you might put it on in the pissing rain, but if - like me - you've lobbed it on, spent a week in a ditch at Otterburn and then taken it off (my pits were spectacular...) you'll have used the weather resistant bit for about 12 seconds in a week, and spent 6 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes and 48 seconds wishing it wasn't clammy. i don't know if its possible to produce an insulating garment (apart from a woolly jumper..) that only insulates rather than insulates and has a windproof/water-resistant barrier, but i'd be interested to see its weight/bulk/breathability/longevity..

i'm not saying its crap, its not, its a very useful tool for quite a wide spectrum of weather conditions - but it is, like the softie, based on a garment that was not designed to be worn with something else worn over the top.