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the smock thing, the one that looks like a Buffalo, is a pretty good garment for being on the move (to some degree) in cold weather. the buffalo and the softie are too warm for that, and so conversely you would not be overly warm if stood about on a range in December all day in the thermal smock - its a good addition to your arsenal, but its not the wonder top that does everything.
Thanks Ropebag, I think that's fairly comprehensively answered my original question to Apod about how it compares to the Buffalo. The Buffalo I find too warm when mobile in work unless its practically freezing but not sure another top is what I really need.
the commercial equivilant is the Buffalo Techlite smock....in Scottish winter climbing conditions, for example, i would wear a long sleeve baselayer under it, and a gore-tex hard shell over it. if i didn't, i'd be bloody freezing
I have the mountain shirt which gets used for both military and mountaineering. Funny thing though, in Scotland I were same as yourself i.e. long sleeve base-layer and mountain shirt. But really only ever put on Gore-tex top if its really crap conditions. 99% of the time its perfect combination.
my own view is that its a mistake in military terms - because we always wear either a windproof smock or waterproofs on top, we don't need whats underneath to be windproof as well, all it does is take up weight/space and make you sweaty rather than warm. being an old fart, the words that leap to my mind are 'woolly' and 'jumper'...
tend to agree completely here about mid layers with wind/shower proof outer bit and throwing wet gear or dpm smock over them. Really it just reduces breathability of the mid layers. But its trying to get the balance of insulation/weatherproofing/camouflage that's the hard part.
An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost.Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain
with all the online photos of French troops on the streets of Paris, like any self respecting gucchi kit whore I started looking at their combats. and i like what i saw.
Felin T4 uniform. seems to be a really well thought out piece of kit. Short combat jacket with CBA friendly chest pockets, built in elbow pads, detachable hood, rear poacher pocket (handy for rain jacket, etc). Combat trousers have built in waist adjusters, braces and kneepads, ankle zips at leg bottoms and volume adjusters around thigh pockets.
makes you wonder how much more could have been done with the issue smock??
An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost.Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain
The biggest problem we have when it comes to our kit are the "combat inspection" crowd of senior officers who came up during the '70s and '80's when our combat uniform was more of a Bks dress then todays iteration.They are more concerned with looking neat on the square for an overseas march past or on the rare occasion the GoC decides to do his inspection in DPM's and not SD's!!
If I could change the smock i would bin the interior pocket(rarely used by most) and add sleeve pockets similar to the the new UBACS(should be done with the shirt also) along with the blanking plates.This would prevent the need for tailoring flashes each time you went overseas also we could make it SOP where to carry our FFD's etc across the various dress states.
Other then that i think the current smock design is ok.Can't figure out why more people don't use the hood tab though.It's not just neater(prevents the hood lining sticking out)but also stops your hood filling up with crap when tactical provides a "seal" when the smock is zipped all the way up which is handy in cold weather.
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
my major problem is the length of the smock and lack of braces on the trousers. smock flapping around my thighs and trousers inching down just annoy me no end. they combine to reduce leg movement crawling, climbing, running etc. no use when tactical and just distracting.
to this end i have my own braces for trousers and usually wear smock with hem elastic tucked up like the old combats used to be worn. Result is much more comfortable, agile mid-section and no trousers sliding down when wet, muddy, etc. although only draback is the smart comments from some about being old sweat, etc.
An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost.Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain
The kneepad section of the trousers is well thought out
But then again, this idea was probably lifted from the Snickers workwear trousers you see the brickies, etc. wearing
They have a similar setup for kneepads
The braces are a good idea too (assuming they are a separate kit item and are not part of the trousers)
I also note that the French smock designers didn't feel the need to put on fake breast pockets, like on the newer DF issue
smock, being content to have the side opening zip pockets as seen above
Any idea what the Velcro on the waist pockets of the jacket is for?
Was curious about that....
Plus the addition of blanking plates on the sleeves could pave the way for subdued unit/Bde flashes, for those who lament the passing
of unit flashes on jumpers, brassards, etc etc
Last edited by Truck Driver; 20 January 2015, 14:11.
"Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"
The braces are a good idea too (assuming they are a separate kit item and are not part of the trousers)
Braces are detachable with retaining loops sewn onto trouser waistbelt. You can just see it in pic. Length of braces adjustable by velcro so lays flat against body. No buckles digging into chest under CBA, etc. another good idea.
Any idea what the Velcro on the waist pockets of the jacket is for? Was curious about that....
not sure to be honest. might be to keep pocket open as there are elastic strips inside them for securely holding odds, ends, and single magazines, etc.
An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost.Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain
The new smocks do fit a little better but the FFD pocket is still annoying as ****. The zips on the bottom pockets and the pants pockets would have been better used on the armpits and leaving the bottom pockets and pants as they were before. The shirts are just shite. The DF need to adopt a sizing system like the Brits have with your height/chest measurements across all items of clothing so you don't have to get a medium smock, XL dryflows, XL norgie and a Large shirt...then there's the size variation between different batches from different orders.
Q for the spotters; did the smock ever exist without a hood in the DF?
not that i remember. we had trial versions in my unit years ago and they were pretty much the same design as the issued thing.
An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost.Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain
The new smocks do fit a little better but the FFD pocket is still annoying as ****. The zips on the bottom pockets and the pants pockets would have been better used on the armpits and leaving the bottom pockets and pants as they were before
The zips on the combat trousers pockets break my f***ing heart
If they fully detach, the zip is a b'stard to reconnect (unless you take the trousers off.... try that one before a muster parade on the square.... )
A tip I heard to prevent this is to glue the end of the zip when it is hooked up. This prevents the zip from opening fully
The shirts are just shite
Agree...
1. On Sizing Grounds
Used to take a Medium in the previous style shirt and it fitted with something left over
Having said that, I took a new one out of the bag which was in the attic recently, and the fit is snug to say the least
Need to get running again to disprove the possibility I've turned into a fat b'stard over Christmas
2. Lack of robustness after washing
Also found that when I stuck the current issue shirt in the wash, that there was fabric wear on one of the sleeves afterwards... :(
At least with the previous issue shirt, no such wear was obvious after first wash
Q for the spotters; did the smock ever exist without a hood in the DF?
Not that I can recall. I was issued my first DPM smock in 2001 (still have it), it's a Portwest one (without the tricolour on the shoulder), and has a hood
I haven't seen anyone (to date) use the hood storage pocket on the current issue smock
Have seen some of the new issue UBACS shirts floating about in the Curragh recently - neat looking bit of kit
Also saw an NS Lt in DPM with gold on black rank sliders. Is there a shortage of the NS OG rank sliders or something?
Wouldn't have thought this should be the case, seeing as DPM has been introduced across the board in Haulbowline for general duties
(or so I believe anyway?)
The old OG combat jacket had no hood, but had three buttons under the collar, for the attachment of a detachable hood (for all the good it was)
Last edited by Truck Driver; 20 January 2015, 17:09.
"Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"
I got one of those French combat jackets off a lad overseas, great bit of kit. They have pit zips as well which are handy, along with the 3 button setup that TD described above for putting on and taking off the hood.
Haven't done anything mad in the new UBACS yet but so far, it's looking like it's gonna be a smashing bit of kit.
Last edited by Fridge Magnet; 20 January 2015, 17:59.
I knew a simple soldier boy.....
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.
In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain.
And no one spoke of him again.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
The French raingear is also superb. Very easy to get in an out of.
Agree. Purchased a set of it a few years ago when the DF was less enlightened about issuing DPM raingear to the Reserve
It has a vent zip in each sleeve included
If anyone ever put a hand out for a slap, it was you, Buck (sorry).....
"Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"
Is Raingear for RDF on scale of issue or is it pool issue?
cos
em
i was "issued" a set a few years back... 4 times people have tried to sign it back in from stores that I didnt sign it out of
"He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
"No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."
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