Good Kit

[apod]

You know sometimes I wonder why I bother.

Nobody has to sell me on why FR clothing is important.It is.

Is it necessary for all activities we do here in a relatively benign threat environment?? Answer. NO.

On island the majority of the DF do not work with explosives. Ordnance Corps do and they are kitted out accordingly. Corps of Engineers do from time to time and they should have FR kit also.

ARW?Well 'nuff said.We all know why they need FR kit.

On island normal troops NEED FR kit for potential CRC. And it is there if needed. AC and NS have their own specific requirements and those are catered for. But does Joe soap Infanteer either PDF or AR NEED FR kit day to day?

Answer.NO.

In short there is nowt wrong with wearing non FR kit in a benign IED threat environment.

IMHO we should take a leaf out of the NZDF book and issue expensive FR kit to troops deploying on live OPS and issue everybody else the same kit but non FR for everything else.Who knows.If it cost less to kit a lad/lass out with a UBACS perhaps EVERYBODY who is required to wear body armour could be issued one and NOT just the PDF??

[spider pig]

And then have to purchase double the amount of kit? The tac gear is meant for operational environments be it overseas or training on island. It would be an absolute waste to purchase an additional uniform taking into consideration we already have two. Barrack dress and operational dress.

that said if you want to buy kit and you are aware it’s not FR, that my friend is on you. Personally I base all my purchases on two things. Quality, ie is it going to last, is it fit for purpose and secondly how much use the gear will get. If it’s not often then I simply don’t need it

If people are buying the arktis kit then they need to think about it’s intended use. The rain shield is not a waterproof jacket and can’t replace the the issued one on its own.

[apod]

We would not be purchasing two different uniforms. We would be purchasing the same uniform just made from two different materials. FR should be Operational dress. Non FR should be Barracks and Training dress.

There would be less FR kit purchased as it would only be issued for OPS.So there is a cost saving straight away. Four non FR Trousers and shirts issued for home station and issue everyone two FR Trousers and UBACS for OPS. Only to be worn outside camp.Normal kit for day to day inside camp.

Same principle as having Operational Boots and Barracks boots. The barrack boots see more use and are thus cheaper and more cost efficient to replace as they wear out quicker. Operational boots are only supposed to be worn for OPS/duties or training for same. They are more expensive as they are supposed to be worn less and shouldn't have to be replaced as often.

We are already seeing moves to prioritising categories of personnel for issue of certain kit. The new TAC Trousers (when we eventually see them) will NOT be issued to personnel in HQ or CSS appointments either here OR overseas.Why?? Because they are expensive and they don't need them for shining a seat in an office or mooching around Bks/Camp.

[X-RayOne]

We would not be purchasing two different uniforms. We would be purchasing the same uniform just made from two different materials. FR should be Operational dress. Non FR should be Barracks and Training dress.

You're deluded to think suppliers would sell FR kit at the same price as non FR kit, even if they are identical items. There will always be an additional cost if you start changing materials, specs, etc.

I agree there's not the need for everybody to have FR kit but the only way you would minimise expenses is by buying everything FR and then relying on quantity of scale to offset increased material costs hopefully.

[apod]

You're deluded to think suppliers would sell FR kit at the same price as non FR kit, even if they are identical items. There will always be an additional cost if you start changing materials, specs, etc.

I agree there's not the need for everybody to have FR kit but the only way you would minimise expenses is by buying everything FR and then relying on quantity of scale to offset increased material costs hopefully.

i think you have missed my point completely(and NO I am not deluded thanks very much). My point is Exactly that. FR kit is more expensive than non FR and as such FR kit should NOT be used for non operational taskings. Issue Non FR for day to day and training. Cheaper to replace. Issue FR solely for Ops (Overseas)(and at home for Ord Corps/Engrs using explosives)for when it IS needed.

Now. Have I made my point sufficiently clear or do I have to write it in Braile next time??

[batterysgt]

lets have kit for every day of the week.

[X-RayOne]

Now. Have I made my point sufficiently clear or do I have to write it in Braile next time??

Please write it in braile...i didn't quite hear you shouting at your keyboard

The more specialty items you add to the clothing issue the more costs will go up. Regardless of who or what they are for! And the clothing budget is mostly a fixed amount, so if you are buying more individual items then there will be less money for other items (or other items specs will drop to make them cheaper which inevitably hits quality too).

And if you read my post you'd notice I agreed with you that not everybody needs FR clothing!

[X-RayOne]

Deleted

[apod]

Please write it in braile...i didn't quite hear you shouting at your keyboard

The more specialty items you add to the clothing issue the more costs will go up. Regardless of who or what they are for! And the clothing budget is mostly a fixed amount, so if you are buying more individual items then there will be less money for other items (or other items specs will drop to make them cheaper which inevitably hits quality too).

And if you read my post you'd notice I agreed with you that not everybody needs FR clothing!

Ok Bud.I am 100% wrong.You are right . I know nothing and I am deluded.Happy Now?? That what you wanted to hear??

Now please all knowing one can you explain how REDUCING the cost of the everyday worn kit ,worn by the Majority,by NOT producing it in the dearer FR Material and by only Procuring relatively small amounts of the dearer kit and issuing that to the Minority ,as required ,actually makes the whole procurement more expensive????

Sorry I am just a poor deluded thick grunt but even my tiny brain knows that if you spending less money on an item it costs less to replace it when it gives out.

[X-RayOne]

Apod, you've obviously taken offence at a differing opinion and are getting pretty wound up that I'm not agreeing with you. I'm leaving it at that, this won't go anywhere.

[apod]

Apod, you've obviously taken offence at a differing opinion and are getting pretty wound up that I'm not agreeing with you. I'm leaving it at that, this won't go anywhere.

No Mate. No problem with differing opinions. I DO have a problem with someone calling me deluded. Patronising and insulting. I agree though.This is going nowhere. Agree to disagree.

[Wiggles]

The problem with that idea Apod is that the average grunt isn't going to care if their gear is FR or not and will don first clean piece of said item he/she lays his/her hands on in the locker
so unless you have the NCOs checking the tags of the kit being worn on patrols or operations (plenty of whom also couldnt care less) I can't see that being a viable option.

Should just have clearly identifiable operational kit, all of which is FR (UBAC, smock and combat trousers w/knee pads and stretchy crotch) and then shirt and standard trousers none of which are FR for barrack wear

[apod]

The problem with that idea Apod is that the average grunt isn't going to care if their gear is FR or not and will don first clean piece of said item he/she lays his/her hands on in the locker
so unless you have the NCOs checking the tags of the kit being worn on patrols or operations (plenty of whom also couldnt care less) I can't see that being a viable option.

Should just have clearly identifiable operational kit, all of which is FR (UBAC, smock and combat trousers w/knee pads and stretchy crotch) and then shirt and standard trousers none of which are FR for barrack wear

Yeah. That could work. Or you could just make the Gucci FR kit just slightly different to the normal kit. NS I believe did this during the NSV DPM trials. The Non FR trials kit had different colour velcro so it could be identified as such. Simple and easy to spot.

[DeV]

But isn’t all NS DPM FR then?

no base kit and at sea kit?

[apod]

But isn’t all NS DPM FR then?

no base kit and at sea kit?

Some of it is(Shirt/Trousers), the smock isn't and it is labelled as such. Not to be worn below decks. AFAIK the first trials kit was all non FR as it was cheaper to test the cut/design with basic fabrics.