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  • X-RayOne
    replied
    Originally posted by apod View Post
    No Mate. No problem with differing opinions. I DO have a problem with someone calling me deluded. Patronising and insulting. I agree though.This is going nowhere. Agree to disagree.
    Fair point Apod. Inappropriate language on my part. Not best way to start a discussion. Apologies.

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  • apod
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    But isn’t all NS DPM FR then?

    no base kit and at sea kit?



    Some of it is(Shirt/Trousers), the smock isn't and it is labelled as such. Not to be worn below decks. AFAIK the first trials kit was all non FR as it was cheaper to test the cut/design with basic fabrics.

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  • DeV
    replied
    But isn’t all NS DPM FR then?

    no base kit and at sea kit?




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  • apod
    replied
    Originally posted by Wiggles View Post
    The problem with that idea Apod is that the average grunt isn't going to care if their gear is FR or not and will don first clean piece of said item he/she lays his/her hands on in the locker
    so unless you have the NCOs checking the tags of the kit being worn on patrols or operations (plenty of whom also couldnt care less) I can't see that being a viable option.

    Should just have clearly identifiable operational kit, all of which is FR (UBAC, smock and combat trousers w/knee pads and stretchy crotch) and then shirt and standard trousers none of which are FR for barrack wear
    Yeah. That could work. Or you could just make the Gucci FR kit just slightly different to the normal kit. NS I believe did this during the NSV DPM trials. The Non FR trials kit had different colour velcro so it could be identified as such. Simple and easy to spot.

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  • Wiggles
    replied
    The problem with that idea Apod is that the average grunt isn't going to care if their gear is FR or not and will don first clean piece of said item he/she lays his/her hands on in the locker
    so unless you have the NCOs checking the tags of the kit being worn on patrols or operations (plenty of whom also couldnt care less) I can't see that being a viable option.

    Should just have clearly identifiable operational kit, all of which is FR (UBAC, smock and combat trousers w/knee pads and stretchy crotch) and then shirt and standard trousers none of which are FR for barrack wear

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  • apod
    replied
    Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
    Apod, you've obviously taken offence at a differing opinion and are getting pretty wound up that I'm not agreeing with you. I'm leaving it at that, this won't go anywhere.
    No Mate. No problem with differing opinions. I DO have a problem with someone calling me deluded. Patronising and insulting. I agree though.This is going nowhere. Agree to disagree.

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  • X-RayOne
    replied
    Apod, you've obviously taken offence at a differing opinion and are getting pretty wound up that I'm not agreeing with you. I'm leaving it at that, this won't go anywhere.

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  • apod
    replied
    Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post

    Please write it in braile...i didn't quite hear you shouting at your keyboard

    The more specialty items you add to the clothing issue the more costs will go up. Regardless of who or what they are for! And the clothing budget is mostly a fixed amount, so if you are buying more individual items then there will be less money for other items (or other items specs will drop to make them cheaper which inevitably hits quality too).

    And if you read my post you'd notice I agreed with you that not everybody needs FR clothing!
    Ok Bud.I am 100% wrong.You are right . I know nothing and I am deluded.Happy Now?? That what you wanted to hear??

    Now please all knowing one can you explain how REDUCING the cost of the everyday worn kit ,worn by the Majority,by NOT producing it in the dearer FR Material and by only Procuring relatively small amounts of the dearer kit and issuing that to the Minority ,as required ,actually makes the whole procurement more expensive????

    Sorry I am just a poor deluded thick grunt but even my tiny brain knows that if you spending less money on an item it costs less to replace it when it gives out.

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  • X-RayOne
    replied
    Deleted
    Last edited by X-RayOne; 13 April 2021, 16:33.

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  • X-RayOne
    replied
    Originally posted by apod View Post
    Now. Have I made my point sufficiently clear or do I have to write it in Braile next time??
    Please write it in braile...i didn't quite hear you shouting at your keyboard

    The more specialty items you add to the clothing issue the more costs will go up. Regardless of who or what they are for! And the clothing budget is mostly a fixed amount, so if you are buying more individual items then there will be less money for other items (or other items specs will drop to make them cheaper which inevitably hits quality too).

    And if you read my post you'd notice I agreed with you that not everybody needs FR clothing!

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  • batterysgt
    replied
    lets have kit for every day of the week.
    Last edited by batterysgt; 12 April 2021, 20:59.

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  • apod
    replied
    Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post

    You're deluded to think suppliers would sell FR kit at the same price as non FR kit, even if they are identical items. There will always be an additional cost if you start changing materials, specs, etc.

    I agree there's not the need for everybody to have FR kit but the only way you would minimise expenses is by buying everything FR and then relying on quantity of scale to offset increased material costs hopefully.
    i think you have missed my point completely(and NO I am not deluded thanks very much). My point is Exactly that. FR kit is more expensive than non FR and as such FR kit should NOT be used for non operational taskings. Issue Non FR for day to day and training. Cheaper to replace. Issue FR solely for Ops (Overseas)(and at home for Ord Corps/Engrs using explosives)for when it IS needed.

    Now. Have I made my point sufficiently clear or do I have to write it in Braile next time??

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  • X-RayOne
    replied
    Originally posted by apod View Post
    We would not be purchasing two different uniforms. We would be purchasing the same uniform just made from two different materials. FR should be Operational dress. Non FR should be Barracks and Training dress.
    You're deluded to think suppliers would sell FR kit at the same price as non FR kit, even if they are identical items. There will always be an additional cost if you start changing materials, specs, etc.

    I agree there's not the need for everybody to have FR kit but the only way you would minimise expenses is by buying everything FR and then relying on quantity of scale to offset increased material costs hopefully.

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  • apod
    replied
    We would not be purchasing two different uniforms. We would be purchasing the same uniform just made from two different materials. FR should be Operational dress. Non FR should be Barracks and Training dress.

    There would be less FR kit purchased as it would only be issued for OPS.So there is a cost saving straight away. Four non FR Trousers and shirts issued for home station and issue everyone two FR Trousers and UBACS for OPS. Only to be worn outside camp.Normal kit for day to day inside camp.

    Same principle as having Operational Boots and Barracks boots. The barrack boots see more use and are thus cheaper and more cost efficient to replace as they wear out quicker. Operational boots are only supposed to be worn for OPS/duties or training for same. They are more expensive as they are supposed to be worn less and shouldn't have to be replaced as often.

    We are already seeing moves to prioritising categories of personnel for issue of certain kit. The new TAC Trousers (when we eventually see them) will NOT be issued to personnel in HQ or CSS appointments either here OR overseas.Why?? Because they are expensive and they don't need them for shining a seat in an office or mooching around Bks/Camp.
    Last edited by apod; 11 April 2021, 15:27.

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  • spider pig
    replied
    And then have to purchase double the amount of kit? The tac gear is meant for operational environments be it overseas or training on island. It would be an absolute waste to purchase an additional uniform taking into consideration we already have two. Barrack dress and operational dress.

    that said if you want to buy kit and you are aware it’s not FR, that my friend is on you. Personally I base all my purchases on two things. Quality, ie is it going to last, is it fit for purpose and secondly how much use the gear will get. If it’s not often then I simply don’t need it

    If people are buying the arktis kit then they need to think about it’s intended use. The rain shield is not a waterproof jacket and can’t replace the the issued one on its own.
    Last edited by spider pig; 11 April 2021, 12:11.

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