Irish Military Online is in no way affiliated with the Irish Defence Forces. It is in no way sponsored or endorsed by the Irish Defence Forces or the Irish Government. Opinions expressed by the authors and contributors of this site are not necessarily those of the Defence Forces. If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Dev, I think a bit of your response disappeared but I take it you are saying where troops are overseas they are most at risk. Agreed, as my post stated issue something that matches the local terrain (most commonly arid) for situations like UNDOF, etc. But make it a general issue to be retained when not overseas and brought out as required to save on costs.
Also, troops may also not always wear blue covers. Plenty of overseas missions have been under different banners, not UN and even some of these didn't require blue, not to mention home operations. We cannot assume troops will only be at risk on UN missions but must prepare and equip for all eventualities.
No that was it
it makes sense to purchase off the shelf MTP (with tricolour and Óglaigh na hEireann of course), should reduce costs massively
Issue something (MTP / desert/arid) for appropriate overseas operations.
By issuing the new Uniform in Multicam/IMTTP whatever it can also be used at home. Hence the name Multi Environment.
Don't know what current scale of issue is for home or overseas but before everybody says one uniform pattern is cost saving we've had creep with the IP-DPM into items issued for barrack or field use only.
There are no separate home and Overseas issues anymore. Hasn't been one since roughly 2011. You get issued everything initially (in principle at least) and must maintain it for possible deployments. As for the Barracks vs Field argument. Blame the Staff officers who don't want to wear "untidy" Field uniforms in the Office/HQ. Fine. Go Old school. Staff Officers in Unit HQs etc wear SD No3. Problem solved.
Why not issue a home and overseas scale of issue at outset to ensure everybody adequately fitted out for both, instead of issuing new uniforms every time someone going overseas?
OK. Now you are contradicting yourself. You said above to issue kit for "appropriate overseas operations" but then question the logic of issuing new Uniforms every time someone goes overseas.
To clarify. There is no overseas issue anymore. When deploying you get a kit inspection and if you are deficient items you should have you get a replacement/FWT issue or an Initial issue if a new item has come on stream and you don't have it yet.
As for having a separate Uniform solely for Overseas use that sits in the locker most of the time. How many do you issue? How often? In how may patterns? How long should they last 6 Months, a year two? What if you put on or loose weight during that time? How cost effective is having multiple rarely used items gathering dust in lockers? How much money does it cost the DoD/DF to maintain stocks of same? I could go on and on.
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
By issuing the new Uniform in Multicam/IMTTP whatever it can also be used at home. Hence the name Multi Environment.
There are no separate home and Overseas issues anymore. Hasn't been one since roughly 2011. You get issued everything initially (in principle at least) and must maintain it for possible deployments. As for the Barracks vs Field argument. Blame the Staff officers who don't want to wear "untidy" Field uniforms in the Office/HQ. Fine. Go Old school. Staff Officers in Unit HQs etc wear SD No3. Problem solved.
OK. Now you are contradicting yourself. You said above to issue kit for "appropriate overseas operations" but then question the logic of issuing new Uniforms every time someone goes overseas.
To clarify. There is no overseas issue anymore. When deploying you get a kit inspection and if you are deficient items you should have you get a replacement/FWT issue or an Initial issue if a new item has come on stream and you don't have it yet.
As for having a separate Uniform solely for Overseas use that sits in the locker most of the time. How many do you issue? How often? In how may patterns? How long should they last 6 Months, a year two? What if you put on or loose weight during that time? How cost effective is having multiple rarely used items gathering dust in lockers? How much money does it cost the DoD/DF to maintain stocks of same? I could go on and on.
The bottom line is cost.
And if cost is the deciding factor, buy off the shelf combat proven MTP garments (and accessories) and pay the manufacturer/distributor to sew on tricolour and Óglaigh na hEireann tape
or even better just issue Velcro (but can see reason why they would want the manufacturer to sew it on)
i'm of the view that off the shelf would be fine as long as the legals like flag is there, take whatever one of our neighbours has and buy a bulk order . Brits seem to have no problem at home with it
SERE Instructors are at Red Flag Rescue 23 in Arizona. RFR is a combat search and rescue exercise ran by the @usairforce.
The exercise is coordinated out of @davismonthan_afb Davis Monthan Air Force Base and the exercise area spans across the Sonoran Desert and into New Mexico.
Our involvement is as SERE Specialists and Personnel Recovery Staff. Our instructors are there for nearly 3 weeks with the USAF, US Navy, US Marines, Colombian AF, German SERE, Norwegian SERE and Italian SERE.
This week they trained as Controllers for isolated aircrew on the ground who can possibly be carrying injuries. Recovery Forces and the US PJs use close Air Support while on the ground to recover the injured persons.
Once the recovery has been conducted, our teams then write reports and briefs on the IPs performance and also the performance of the recovery team.
Be sure to follow, as next week we will be back at base for mission planning!!!
The guy on the left is wearing off the Shelf cryes. So bog standard Multicam. The guy on right is wearing the Seyntex copy. Pattern unconfirmed as to whether or not it’s the new General service pattern but it is in use with the Wing.
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
Request for Info (RFI) published on the new etenders site for provision of the new Defence Forces Combat Clothing System (DFCCS) in Irish Transitional Multicam Pattern (ITMP).
ITMP is a bespoke pattern developed in conjunction with Crye.
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
So tender in six months brings us to December, with I suppose a 3 month deadline, so maybe a contract announced in 12 months time, and first roll out Jan 2025?
I don't see it on etenders.
For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
NO. Sorry. Should have been clearer. Tender expected to be published within a window of six months after RFI closure deadline which is 21 July. In theory they could publish the RFT on the 22 July. They know what they want. Just going through the EU competitions rules. My best guess is a tender awarded by Christmas and first deliveries end of Q3 next year.
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
The Irish-DFCCS system will be utilised in the following climatic zones as per STANAG 4370/AECTP - 230 A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, C0, M1 and M2. If the Irish Defence Forces decide to conduct a competitive process for their DFCCSsystems, it is envisaged that indicative operational scenarioswill be provided during the PQQ stage. Full system requirements and all operational scenarios will be defined atITT stage.
Contract Length:
It is anticipated that the potential contract may be for five years with the options of additional five one-year extensions.
Anticipated value is €28 million
ITMP:
A bespoke Irish Transitional Multicam Pattern has been developed on behalf of, and in conjunction with, the Irish Defence Forces. There will be a requirement for the successful Tenderer to work in conjunction with CRYE Precision who have developed the ITMP and therefore will be required to work with approved printer(s) to ensure compliance to the ITMP. There is a contractual agreement for a fixed ITMP royalty price for all approved printers.
NO. Sorry. Should have been clearer. Tender expected to be published within a window of six months after RFI closure deadline which is 21 July. In theory they could publish the RFT on the 22 July. They know what they want. Just going through the EU competitions rules. My best guess is a tender awarded by Christmas and first deliveries end of Q3 next year.
So.... I've previously seen mention of a plates carrier system being trialed, which will presumably replace the current battlevest? So what about main packs and daysack? Would assume these would also need to be upgraded, given impending rollout of (now we know the title) ITMP
"Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
Thought the science, good enough was a good explanation
Fair enough. We all know that DPM will still be better in a purely Western European or on island scenario. But ITMP is not going to be worn in just those locations. Having separate uniforms for various regions is too expensive so we are getting one that will work in most.
As for the Naysayers. Most of them will never wear ITMP off Island on OPS. Their opinion is moot.
"Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.
We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted.
Tweet
Comment