Soldier 2024

[Truck Driver]

dare I ask? what's wrong with the existing gear? Is it failing at some fundamental level, that the soldiers are complaining about?

Impending expiry of DPM pattern copyright, move to a Multicam.type pattern will fulfil temperate and hot climate requirements, and the move from black to brown boots, I believe, are the main reasons

[apod]

Impending expiry of DPM pattern copyright, move to a Multicam type pattern will fulfill temperate and hot climate requirements, and the move from black to brown boots, I believe, are the main reasons

What he said.Add in the insane amount of DPM available for sale around the place which is a security issue.

[Rhodes]

dare I ask? what's wrong with the existing gear? Is it failing at some fundamental level, that the soldiers are complaining about?

The current four colour, large pattern, terrain specific DPM is considered old technology.
Modern camo designs are mostly seven colour, mixed large and small patterns, suitable for a multitude of terrains.

There is also the problem of there now being three camo designs in use, Army, ARW and the pointless naval one. Single Camo Concept.

Impending expiry of DPM pattern copyright, move to a Multicam.type pattern will fulfil temperate and hot climate requirements, and the move from black to brown boots, I believe, are the main reasons

That's a myth, the copyright of Irish DPM was not registered.

[na grohmiti]

The current four colour, large pattern, terrain specific DPM is considered old technology.
Modern camo designs are mostly seven colour, mixed large and small patterns, suitable for a multitude of terrains.

There is also the problem of there now being three camo designs in use, Army, ARW and the pointless naval one. Single Camo Concept.



That's a myth, the copyright of Irish DPM was not registered.

The Naval service have no use for an army pattern combat uniform aboard ship, that is unsuitable for the naval working environment. Seeing a photo of a NS SNCO in KFOR earlier this week, the naval pattern actually worked better than the current Irish pattern. Hopefully the irish MTP style will end up closer in tone to the NS pattern. That way the honkeys will get over their jealousy.

[trellheim]

That's a myth, the copyright of Irish DPM was not registered. <- yes this x1000

[apod]

The Naval service have no use for an army pattern combat uniform aboard ship, that is unsuitable for the naval working environment. Seeing a photo of a NS SNCO in KFOR earlier this week, the naval pattern actually worked better than the current Irish pattern. Hopefully the irish MTP style will end up closer in tone to the NS pattern. That way the honkeys will get over their jealousy.

They have no use for a stupid blue and grey cami pattern that blends with nothing on the ship either! Plain navy or NS grey in a new cut and FR material would have been more practical, smarter and less likely to look like a third world cop.As for jealousy? Please. No one who sees that abortion of a uniform is jealous. Trust me.

[na grohmiti]

Sorry for leaving that grenade there. Didn't think you'd trip over it....

[apod]

Sorry for leaving that grenade there. Didn't think you'd trip over it....

Like hell. You knew I would bite.

[apod]

dare I ask? what's wrong with the existing gear? Is it failing at some fundamental level, that the soldiers are complaining about?

Too Dark and sticks out in Sub Saharan Africa IE Mali/Chad. Retains heat in Hot Climates. That's two complaints made for ya. Multiple times i Might add.

[apod]

Oh. I forgot the current uniform is not (Except UBACS+ T-shirts) Flame retardant. Which is a must these days if operating in any environment where you might encounter IEDS.

I reckon we could see the current Uniform design carrying over into the new pattern( Barrack JacketShirt/trousers) but non FR and non IRR to reduce cost on a uniform that will mainly be worn around Bks but re investing the money saved and putting it into an all over FR/IRR and possibly Insect repellent (permethrin) Field Uniform (UBAC/ TAC trousers/Smock/Baselayers). The day to day uniform which would wear out faster would be cheaper to replace and the Field Uniform would last longer but offer greater protection.

The only snag is leadership being ruthless in enforcing the rules about not wearing the Barracks uniform in the field.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Too Dark and sticks out in Sub Saharan Africa IE Mali/Chad. Retains heat in Hot Climates. That's two complaints made for ya. Multiple times i Might add.

Too dark? I guess nobody told the Swedes and Finns about Dark Green. Guess what colour our land mass is? Guess what temperature we operate in? Guess what colours our vehicles are painted? We operate in the Nordic environment on exchanges. .I recall the current issue being coloured the way it (as one VSO at the time, put it), "to avoid confusion with the UK and American uniforms". In certain situations, it suited our lot to be specifically distinguishable from the neighbours. Our fellow Europeans, when they go to hot sandy places, they change over to suitable uniforms instead of trying to make a jacket designed for the Curragh work in 40 degC. Our DoD don't want to have to buy every man-jack three head to toe uniforms (dress/barracks/field), if they can possibly avoid it, but that's essentially what's happening, so they will rob Peter to pay Paul and the new uniforms will arrive but the vehicle you are driving in will continue to be kept on for another couple of years to pay for it or your barrack Room will continue to leak for another few years. Quite frankly, is the existing uniform so bad that it needs to be entirely changed out, if it works for our local conditions? I get why the helmet has to go, but everything else?

[apod]

Too dark? I guess nobody told the Swedes and Finns about Dark Green. Guess what colour our land mass is? Guess what temperature we operate in? Guess what colours our vehicles are painted? We operate in the Nordic environment on exchanges.

Dark colours retain heat in HOT climates. Ie Lebanon during summer, Mali Etc. We are going to be in Africa for the foreseeable. I guess we should disregard the fact that nearly all the countries contributing troops to EUTM Mali either issue some version of Multicam or a Desert Pattern whereas our people have to put up with a uniform that makes them stick out like a sore thumb and increases their chance of heat illness! The Bean counters want One Uniform that can be worn both at home an abroad. As for the Nordic countries? Denmark Issues Multicam as standard and the Royal Marines wear MTP in Norway. Moot point.

.I recall the current issue being coloured the way it (as one VSO at the time, put it), "to avoid confusion with the UK and American uniforms". In certain situations, it suited our lot to be specifically distinguishable from the neighbours.

I agree. I think wearing "Everybodycam" is a bad idea from an IFF point of view. I don't know how we are going to square that circle.

Our fellow Europeans, when they go to hot sandy places, they change over to suitable uniforms instead of trying to make a jacket designed for the Curragh work in 40 degC.

Yes. And that costs a fortune. Issuing uniforms that can only be used in one specific environment. Probably why the French are the latest to abandon that Idea by transitioning to their own bespoke Multicam(BME). The Belgians did the same recently and are wadi-ing their Temperate Jigsaw pattern and their Desert pattern in favour of off the shelf Crye Multicam.

Our DoD don't want to have to buy every man-jack three head to toe uniforms (dress/barracks/field), if they can possibly avoid it, but that's essentially what's happening,

Apart from the current DPM trousers as they are worn both in Bks and the field we pretty much have that already. SD's, Barracks/working Dress and Field dress.Correct me if I am wrong(Don't worry i'm not) but didn't we have a similar system with OGs???

so they will rob Peter to pay Paul and the new uniforms will arrive but the vehicle you are driving in will continue to be kept on for another couple of years to pay for it or your barrack Room will continue to leak for another few years.

A poor argument. Millions have been spent upgrading and replacing the Transport fleet over the last three years and the work is ongoing as have millions been spent on the built infrastructure program.Again.apples and Oranges.

Quite frankly, is the existing uniform so bad that it needs to be entirely changed out, if it works for our local conditions? I get why the helmet has to go, but everything else?

The problem is it ONLY works in our Local conditions or in similar environments.It sucks in Hot areas and offers no concealment in Arid areas.if this argument against is purely on cost grounds than it that's moot also as it would cost MORE to kit out large numbers of troops in Desert pattern with that kit discarded after a 6 month tour. That why it never happened. Anyway.Oh and nothing is GOING..Apart from the pattern(and hopefully the current design smock) infact we will see a couple of new additions to the kit.

Anyway. All this is a bit rich coming from an Air Corps Exer. Lets not forget who started the Ball rolling on Bespoke Uniforms in the DF that were only worn in one location in the country and by trolly dollys on the Government jet!!! Just because the Air Corps wanted to distinguish themselves from the rest of the DF!

[apod]

There is also the problem of there now being three camo designs in use, Army, ARW and the pointless naval one. Single Camo Concept.

I can't see the sea hags giving up their pet vanity project uniform to re-introduce a land specific camo pattern.I wonder will they faff away more money by trying to take the Multicam pattern and adapt it using their colours??

As for the Wing I reckon they might just stay with the standard Multicam they have now. It's pretty much the NATO/PFP SOF standard pattern and let's face it.The Wing never want to appear the same as the rest of the Army anyway.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Dark colours retain heat in HOT climates. Ie Lebanon during summer, Mali Etc. We are going to be in Africa for the foreseeable. I guess we should disregard the fact that nearly all the countries contributing troops to EUTM Mali either issue some version of Multicam or a Desert Pattern whereas our people have to put up with a uniform that makes them stick out like a sore thumb and increases their chance of heat illness! The Bean counters want One Uniform that can be worn both at home an abroad. As for the Nordic countries? Denmark Issues Multicam as standard and the Royal Marines wear MTP in Norway. Moot point.




I agree. I think wearing "Everybodycam" is a bad idea from an IFF point of view. I don't know how we are going to square that circle.

Yes. And that costs a fortune. Issuing uniforms that can only be used in one specific environment. Probably why the French are the latest to abandon that Idea by transitioning to their own bespoke Multicam(BME). The Belgians did the same recently and are wadi-ing their Temperate Jigsaw pattern and their Desert pattern in favour of off the shelf Crye Multicam.


Apart from the current DPM trousers as they are worn both in Bks and the field we pretty much have that already. SD's, Barracks/working Dress and Field dress.Correct me if I am wrong(Don't worry i'm not) but didn't we have a similar system with OGs???


A poor argument. Millions have been spent upgrading and replacing the Transport fleet over the last three years and the work is ongoing as have millions been spent on the built infrastructure program.Again.apples and Oranges.


The problem is it ONLY works in our Local conditions or in similar environments.It sucks in Hot areas and offers no concealment in Arid areas.if this argument against is purely on cost grounds than it that's moot also as it would cost MORE to kit out large numbers of troops in Desert pattern with that kit discarded after a 6 month tour. That why it never happened. Anyway.Oh and nothing is GOING..Apart from the pattern(and hopefully the current design smock) infact we will see a couple of new additions to the kit.

Anyway. All this is a bit rich coming from an Air Corps Exer. Lets not forget who started the Ball rolling on Bespoke Uniforms in the DF that were only worn in one location in the country and by trolly dollys on the Government jet!!! Just because the Air Corps wanted to distinguish themselves from the rest of the DF!

At the time when the blue tunics came in for the Don, we had been using the standard Army No2s and the Working Dress (think green pre-Snickers), which was a very good bit of workwear, but it was all a bit of a mishmash as it was common to see people wearing an OG combat jacket over No2 trousers or a battered Ramp jacket over No2s trousers (with additional oil stains) or headgear, various, official/non-official and God help you if it was wet out, as it usually looked as if a crowd of vagrant fishermen off a tramp steamer were fixing aircraft so we were well overdue for a clearout and refit but the Garrison cap that came in was regarded as an utter waste of time and money, compared to a handy beret, as it could not be stuck in a pocket or easily minded. Thankfully, I never had to wear one. As for bespoke, the NS had that since Day 1, not us. People who liked shiny things and doing parades effectively forced in the blue tunics, painted vehjcles blue, fences blue or yellow and forcibly touted the whole "we are special and different than the Army" thing, which I always regarded as pointless because it alienated us from the Army, at a time when the best direction would have been to show how the various Arms could and should work well and effectively together, as a matter of course, instead of the usual bun fighting.

[X-RayOne]

Dark colours retain heat in HOT climates. Ie Lebanon during summer, Mali Etc. We are going to be in Africa for the foreseeable. I guess we should disregard the fact that nearly all the countries contributing troops to EUTM Mali either issue some version of Multicam or a Desert Pattern whereas our people have to put up with a uniform that makes them stick out like a sore thumb and increases their chance of heat illness! The Bean counters want One Uniform that can be worn both at home an abroad. As for the Nordic countries? Denmark Issues Multicam as standard and the Royal Marines wear MTP in Norway. Moot point.


I agree. I think wearing "Everybodycam" is a bad idea from an IFF point of view. I don't know how we are going to square that circle

Wearing IR-DPM overseas in arid areas has been a policy decision. It's wanted that troops stick out like sore thumbs to avoid contacts and the poor PR of troops in contact overseas. Although noticeable that the ARW went off to play with the Germans in Mali and for Kabul were having none of it.

We'll probably go with green electrical tape for IFF. Millions spent designing multicam variants and now every army looks identical from a distance.....Ukraine conflict boils it down to blue/yellow or white electrical tape for IFF.