Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket
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Irish Naval Infantry/Marines?
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Wheres the reality button!
We have around 1100 people in the NS, 8 ships and one base, we are primarily engaged in fishery potection drug interdiction overseas support occassionaly SAR and are the Naval Arm of the Defence forces .
We have several units including special forces even some reserve units that train in boat landing techniques, we have no naval air assets let alone platforms able to operate helos, ships with very little ability to accomadate 'marines' and no where to deploy them.
I know Royal Naval vessels of a similar size have a limited capacity to embark marines, and have had occasion to do so in the past.
Simply unless we intend on taking Rockall by force we have no requirement as there a various groupings in what I have mention that can already carry out both on ship and shore recce parties work.
Welcome to the board!
who'd wanna fcuk with a load of big hairy irishmen well trained and armed to the teeth guarding vessels transiting through the Indian Ocean?Last edited by hptmurphy; 23 April 2012, 22:43.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by Goldie fish View PostDo you even think when you are typing any more? Do you have a clue what marines do? You, dear chap, are turning into a plastic paddy. All that last post was short was a few shilleleaghs.
Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 23 April 2012, 22:47.
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Originally posted by tomh903 View PostDo you think that the Irish Defence Force should have a specialy desighned unit to carry out combat at sea...
its exactly the same as the parachute capability - no Irish government would touch an operation that needed such forms of entry with a 300ft bargepole.
thats not the same as having no cross training: given how short-handed the NS are it would make sense to have a designated Coy-sized Army infantry unit providing individual reinforcemets for boarding parties and weapons mounts in NS vessels, as well as to form an Amphibious Group - a unit used to operating within the NS and maritime environment as well as being used to operating with small boats. this could provide not a traditional Raiding Sqn, but an Inf/Sigs/Logs 'bridge' between the NS and the Army when the NS is supporting the Army on OS operations in the way it did in Liberia.
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I don't think we need a Marine unit exactly, but we should have a Bn sized SFSG that could cross train with other army's SFSG units so that it has the experience in Maritime, Airborne, Mountainous, Arctic operations. That way we'd have a capability to support SF ops while able to interoperate with foreign SF on ops overseas. It'll also add an additional air of prestige within the DF as well as introducing an intermediate tier between line units and the ARW.
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Lets discuss this when we own an EPV.
that is all.
carry on."He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
"No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."
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I'm not saying we should have the kit like Chinooks, Hercs, landing craft etc, that's the point of making cross training arrangements, we'd use other armies' kit for that, as we probably would on Ops. The Irish Government don't have the balls to deploy somewhere alone, so we can always expect to work with someone else who'll no doubt have the kit we can't afford.
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S&S, i think, sadly, that you've both hit the nail on the head and missed the crux completely - the IG is not going to go for potentially 'kinetic' operations within the forseeable future, and without the chance of it being a bit 'sporty' you just don't need either a parachute/airmobile capability, or an Amphibious capability, purely because you could arrive bus!
the proof of this is Afghanistan - Northern and Western Afghanistan in 2001/02/03/04/05 represented the most open goal opportunity possible of what the Govt said it wanted, and the DF was moving towards. peacekeeping/PE, lots of development work, all Irelands EU partners there as well as its other friends - the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand - to help with the logs support that Ireland needs, as well as a smattering of the 'Neutrals', particularly the UN and Sweden, there to provide the political cover, all in joint cause against the very devil himself.
what did Ireland do when presented with this heaven sent opportunity where every single military and political box was ticked with a massive Gold pen? it sent 7 blokes there and everyone else went to Liberia.
the Irish political class has no interest in anything more militarily or politically challenging than UNFIL - Chad scared the crap out of them - there will be no development of capability, there will be no EPV/MRV, there will be no 'strategic airlift', infact there will almost certainly not be any overseas tactical airlft either. no parachute role, no amphibious role, no high-readiness role, no SFSG role - just, and only, the minimum, cheapest, least controversial PK operation possible to keep the population feeling warm about themselves, CIT, shovelling snow, filling sandbags when it rains, and Easter Parades.
which is sad, but none the less true.Last edited by ropebag; 24 April 2012, 13:34.
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Originally posted by ropebag View PostS&S, i think, sadly, that you've both hit the nail on the head and missed the crux completely - the IG is not going to go for potentially 'kinetic' operations within the forseeable future, and without the chance of it being a bit 'sporty' you just don't need either a parachute/airmobile capability, or an Amphibious capability, purely because you could arrive bus!
the proof of this is Afghanistan - Northern and Western Afghanistan in 2001/02/03/04/05 represented the most open goal opportunity possible of what the Govt said it wanted, and the DF was moving towards. peacekeeping/PE, lots of development work, all Irelands EU partners there as well as its other friends - the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand - to help with the logs support that Ireland needs, as well as a smattering of the 'Neutrals', particularly the UN and Sweden, there to provide the political cover, all in joint cause against the very devil himself.
what did Ireland do when presented with this heaven sent opportunity where every single military and political box was ticked with a massive Gold pen? it sent 7 blokes there and everyone else went to Liberia.
the Irish political class has no interest in anything more militarily or politically challenging than UNFIL - Chad scared the crap out of them - there will be no development of capability, there will be no EPV/MRV, there will be no 'strategic airlift', infact there will almost certainly not be any overseas tactical airlft either. no parachute role, no amphibious role, no high-readiness role, no SFSG role - just, and only, the minimum, cheapest, least controversial PK operation possible to keep the population feeling warm about themselves, CIT, shovelling snow, filling sandbags when it rains, and Easter Parades.
which is sad, but none the less true."Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."
Otto Von Bismark
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RB,
Ahem- I think it might be something to do with the fact that the vast majority of the decent people of Britain and Ireland did not then, and certainly do not now, support military adventurism in Afghanistan.
And, much as you might not like it, THE PEOPLE ARE SOVEREIGN, and we are not stupid enough to think that all threats are external.
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Originally posted by SwiftandSure View PostThe Irish Government don't have the balls to deploy somewhere alone, so we can always expect to work with someone else who'll no doubt have the kit we can't afford.
2) Kit is not a problem really - the only possibility of Ireland getting involved in a major war would be in the highly-unlikely event of being invaded and our SOP historically in that scenario is that we take the kit off the enemy. This is actually just second nature to us - and the only reason we have a PDF and RDF is to hold the ground initially, delay the enemy a bit, die for their country even so that the rest of us who abhor war would have a bit of time to teach the enemy no end of a lesson in ruthlessness and viciousness.
In the meantime, we prefer to listen to Nora Jones and dream of humping Andrea Corr over a whole weekend rather than humping 25kg. of kit around the Gen of Imaal.
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Originally posted by Steamy Window View PostCan some explain to an ignorant sod like me why Chad "scared the crap out of" the political class in Ireland??
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