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Cessna Replacement - The Options

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  • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
    I maintain that the Avanti MPA would be a considerable step up in capability for both MPA and ISTAR.
    There has been some downright idiotic procurement decisions taken over the years but that would have to rank near the very top if it came to fruition.

    You don't happen to work in the DoD do you?

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    • A drawing on paper is not a step up in capability and it's not a PC12
      Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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      • The Kingair is in service with serious air forces in the ISTAR role..
        Also makes a credible Fisheries Protection Aircraft..

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        • I've mentioned the king air a few time in this thread, it'd be a far better aircraft but it's not swiss
          Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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          • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
            I've mentioned the king air a few time in this thread, it'd be a far better aircraft but it's not swiss
            A King Air would be a vastly superior aircraft.

            The only other military operator that places an ISTAR Pc12 in harm's way has CSAR options that can only be dreamed of here.

            Buying single engine aircraft with a view to deploying them overseas is beyond foolhardy. Writing a tender document that favours only one aircraft is just crazy.

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            • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
              I've mentioned the king air a few time in this thread, it'd be a far better aircraft but it's not swiss
              KingAir 350ER's are a class act and proven but if you insist on going Swiss the Pilatus PC-24 with the Spectre ISR upgrade package from the PC-12 is in the developmental pipeline.

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              • In general terms in any sphere, only receiving one bid/quote, or qualifying bid is a worry.

                Unless, the requirement is for something amazing and unique for which it known there is only one supplier, then this is ok and should just be stated.

                However, seeing as the AC is not looking to purchase a ‘Death Star’, maybe the competition should be re-run, with the parameters broadened out, to get a better picture of what is available; including a mix bag of aircraft if required, to balance out aircraft and fit-out (surveillance equipment) costs and capabilities, and any tie-ins with existing and other potential future AC aircraft.

                (on another note, do the new PDF pals in Malta also have King Airs for surveillance/ maritime surveillance... how do they get on with it...they could be asked!?)

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                • At best it promotes bad value for taxpayers money. At worst it leaves the authors open to all sorts of accusations.

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                  • Do you know how many tenders were received? Do you work in DoD?

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      Do you know how many tenders were received? Do you work in DoD?

                      Does it matter how many were received?

                      In reality its how many meet the required Spec!

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                      • Originally posted by Charlie252 View Post
                        Does it matter how many were received?

                        In reality its how many meet the required Spec!
                        No point submitting an application of you don't meet the specs

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                        • Great contribution DeV, thanks.

                          Regarding the King Air, I think given the choice, pretty much everyone would prefer a King Air in the overseas ISTAR role.

                          From what I''ve read though, the PC-12 is significantly cheaper to operate and has better short field characteristics (I don't fly, so please correct me if wrong) so to me, it's being bought for a low/no threat environment - same as the AW139's were - not for overseas, or at least not a Chad/Mali environment anyway.

                          Perhaps there's also a worry that if King AIr was bought to replace the Cessna's, that could end of any chance of replacing the Casa's with something bigger and better.

                          Why they wrote it for the PC-12 specifically though - it could easily open a can of worms and be like the S92 debacle.

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                          • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                            A drawing on paper is not a step up in capability and it's not a PC12
                            No, it is not a PC12 - it is a twin, which, l.iving on an island, makes a lot more sense. It is also flying, with a full set of Saab avionics: http://alsaifaviation.com/en/product...trol-aircraft/

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                            • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                              I've mentioned the king air a few time in this thread, it'd be a far better aircraft but it's not swiss
                              Why are we so wedded to buying Swiss? Especially with the limitations they impose on usage? And I'd take the Kind Air. I prefer the Avanti, since it is made in the EU, as are its electronics. But TBH that would be for a tender.

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                              • The Avanti is an expensive toy. 7.7m each, and only a small number (200) produced in 27 years since it was certified?
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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