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  1. #1076
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    No dismounts

  2. #1077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Not unless they have it in large scale production first. Those pictures are of a full scale model/mock up taken at Eurostatory in 2012. It has not been seen since, not even on Panhard's own website.
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  4. #1078
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    A VAB with a turret?

  5. #1079
    Lt General ODIN's Avatar
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    I've said it before, I'll say it again, I believe that the Panhard VBL would be a good option for a Recce troop, coupled with a Mowag CRV for support and the MRV's in a Support Troop. The VBL is a tested and established platform, can be fitted with a weapon and recce kit, and is lightly armored. It's also a much lower profile than the RG-32's, and would be substantially cheaper too.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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  7. #1080
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODIN View Post
    I've said it before, I'll say it again, I believe that the Panhard VBL would be a good option for a Recce troop, coupled with a Mowag CRV for support and the MRV's in a Support Troop. The VBL is a tested and established platform, can be fitted with a weapon and recce kit, and is lightly armored. It's also a much lower profile than the RG-32's, and would be substantially cheaper too.
    We trialed one a few years back, had its own limitations within the perceived roles, Main problem being not enough room for dismounts and their kit.......

    Which leads me on a tangent to the ORBAT for dismounts. Assuming our model was built on the UK model ours differs significantly in that the original UK model from the 80s , the recce trps were all AFVS be, they Fox Scimitar or Scorpion....no dismount capability!
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  8. #1081
    Lt General ODIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    We trialed one a few years back, had its own limitations within the perceived roles, Main problem being not enough room for dismounts and their kit.......

    Which leads me on a tangent to the ORBAT for dismounts. Assuming our model was built on the UK model ours differs significantly in that the original UK model from the 80s , the recce trps were all AFVS be, they Fox Scimitar or Scorpion....no dismount capability!
    Exactly. Even the AML and Scorpions were not dismount friendly platforms. This all goes back to what we want our Cavalry Corps to be, I personally feel that a troop made up of three Panhard VBL's with .5's, two Mowag CRV's with a crew of three and six dismounts would give both the mobility and flexibility for a recce troop to operate. The VBLs don't have to be dismount platforms, they can route recce forward, set up ground radar platforms, or offer light fire support to the dismounts. Given that we already have 18 CRV's in the country, adding 9-12 VBLs per squadron would give a decent capability and would be cheaper than another 27 LTAVs.

    VBL unit cost ~€250K vs RG-32 Outrider unit cost of ~€725K...nearly three for the price of one there!
    Last edited by ODIN; 19th March 2018 at 00:16.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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  10. #1082
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    We trialed one a few years back, had its own limitations within the perceived roles, Main problem being not enough room for dismounts and their kit.......

    Which leads me on a tangent to the ORBAT for dismounts. Assuming our model was built on the UK model ours differs significantly in that the original UK model from the 80s , the recce trps were all AFVS be, they Fox Scimitar or Scorpion....no dismount capability!
    One knocking around early nineties if I remember correctly.

  11. #1083
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    yes. I recall seeing it lash up the Naas rd at full tilt one evening.

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  13. #1084
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    This all goes back to what we want our Cavalry Corps to be,
    Very valid indeed.

    I like your thinking on the make up of a recce troop . With the amount of vehicle actually available ... you probably have the makings of one squadron using the example you use, two if you thin it out a bit more with VBLs.

    VBLs are still in production but the don't have the same level of protection the more modern vehicles have. Price and multiples was always something to be argued on when it came to MOWAGs, there are / were ceaper vehicles out there we could have bought and had double the amount of vehicles but with lower protection levels.

    I'm not arguing with your logic I actually agree with it, but I can see where the argument against will be.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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  15. #1085
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  16. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post


    Nice bit of equipment. You would forget how long the Humvee has been in service.
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  18. #1087
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    The Dutch have ordered 918 LTV's from Iveco called the 12kN which is meant to be a 12t GVW vehicle capable of carrying 5.
    Just wondering what the 12kN stands for as at least in Ireland 12kN works out at 1.22t or are the Dutch planning a mission to the moon?

    https://www.edrmagazine.eu/the-nethe...fence-vehicles

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  20. #1088
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    No. This is a clever scheme to distribute LTVs around NATO and later, the rest of the world. The Dutch buy them, start taking them into service and soon enough, you'll see Dutch troops in action in Afghanistan (insert name of your favourite shithole here). Before long, some unfortunates will be blown up by an IED that could reduce an M1 to lego pieces and the Dutch press will have a field day ("our brave lads in death traps, etc,etc) and there will be outraged voices ("bring our brave lads home,etc,etc) and the surviving LTVs will be shipped back to Holland, where they will be fobbed off onto the Dutch FCA or kept for photo ops on nice, flat Dutch roads. But, the outrage bus will pull up and the Dutch lefties will disembark and complain that the cost of the LTVs is a national scandal and that the fleet should be sold off. At this point, the Belgians, French, Norwegians and anyone with a few spare Euros will rock up and buy a few hundred (never raced or rallied) off the Dutch, at firesale prices. Time will pass and the last LTV, number 918, will be accepted by a lonely, passed over storeman in the Dutch FCA, as far from Amsterdam as it is possible to be yet still remain in Holland. It will accumulate a few kms on it's odometer before being shot to pieces on a range. Even before it's demise in a blaze of 30mm, the competition for it's replacement will have begun and the LTV will pass into Dutch history, like it's fleet of F16s and Leopards.....

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  22. #1089
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    Belgium has gone with the JLTV to replace their Iveco LMV vehicles, 322 vehicles @$0.5m each. Some 135 will be fitted with light RWS mounting 7.62mm MAG.

    https://defence-blog.com/news/army/b...-vehicles.html

  23. #1090
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    332!
    Do we even have that many vehicles in total?
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  25. #1091
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    Reducing down from 440 LMV, what have we 27 LTAV? The Brits are supposed to be buying 2747 and even Lithuania have signed a deal for 200. Is this something we should be looking at

  26. #1092
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    At least it would have a strong support base and interoperability

  27. #1093
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    So the next generation HUMVEE is now here, we will have to see if it will give the JLTV a runs for its money.

    https://www.amgeneral.com/wp-content...360_102020.pdf

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  29. #1094
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    Good thread on the JLTV https://twitter.com/JonHawkes275/sta...85665615183873 He also does a great thread on Tank Design

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  31. #1095
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    6.5L diesel with a 90L tank? Who are they kidding? Your first purchase is a 200L bowser for every vehicle to tow. If they say the range is 250 miles, then that's 200 miles before you start looking for a RESUP. With the inevitable bolt on armour, radios, and roof gunner, your 200 miles soon becomes 150.
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  32. #1096
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    That’s just mind boggling. How could they let that happen
    Sir I cant find my peltors........Private they are on your face

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  34. #1097
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider pig View Post
    That’s just mind boggling. How could they let that happen
    Have you seen "The Pentagon Wars"?
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  36. #1098
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    6.5L diesel with a 90L tank? Who are they kidding? Your first purchase is a 200L bowser for every vehicle to tow. If they say the range is 250 miles, then that's 200 miles before you start looking for a RESUP. With the inevitable bolt on armour, radios, and roof gunner, your 200 miles soon becomes 150.
    The 6.5L diesel and 90L tank are from the original HUMVEE, so unless a customer needs a bigger tank that is what it will stay. There is the tray-extension at the rear which seems to have spaces for 4x20L Jerry cans.

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  38. #1099
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    The 6.5L diesel and 90L tank are from the original HUMVEE, so unless a customer needs a bigger tank that is what it will stay. There is the tray-extension at the rear which seems to have spaces for 4x20L Jerry cans.
    Aka 80L of propellant

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