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Light Tactical Armoured Vehicle: Second attempt.

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  • #16
    VBL has a bigger brother - The VBR



    Tech Specs



    Seems to meet the criteria laid down. Has space for 4 + extra 5 passengers / payload

    Not sure about the armament options though. RWS would seem like it could be retro fitted.

    1300Nm Torque at 1200rpm is some pulling power!! (Though it is a 7.2L Diesel/Jet Fuel)

    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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    • #17
      Heres another interesting thing I found

      Like the idea of the seat arrangement
      Attached Files
      "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by ZULU View Post
        Heres another interesting thing I found

        Like the idea of the seat arrangement

        Yeah, it's a good idea to have everyone facing outwards, covering all sectors. But it only seems to have provision for one weapon? And there might be a problem with legroom for the people facing to the sides? Maybe the side-facing seats could be staggered, to provide extra legroom? Or else they'll be seats for 'shorties' only...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by kermit
          Recce is not a role exclusive to the Cavalry Corps.
          Does that mean that the Inf is getting kitted out with LTAV's just for this purpose of Recce? Makes far too much sense to be true!
          "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

          "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

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          • #20
            Found this after a little digging. Looks very similar to Irelands Budget and requirements.

            Autumn 2005

            Armoured Patrol Vehicles (update):

            Four contenders for a Danish Army 4 x 4 armoured patrol vehicle (APV) requirement are undergoing trails in Denmark. The Danish Army Materiel Command earlier in 2005 issued an invitation to tender for the APV to 11 companies, including AM General (US), BAE Systems, Land Systems OMC (South Africa), IVECO Defence Vehicle Division (Italy), Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (Germany), MOWAG (Switzerland), Panhard (France), Patria Vehicles (Finland), Renault Trucks Defense (France), Rheinmetall Landsysteme (Germany), Sabiex (Belgium) and Textron Marine & Land Systems (US).
            Of these, four replied and the Danish Army is now testing the BAE Systems Land Systems OMC RG-32M, the MOWAG Eagle IV, the Panhard armoured reconnaissance vehicle (VBR) and the Textron Marine & Land Systems Guardian M1117 Armored Security Vehicle (ASV).
            Key APV user requirements include the ability to carry five people including the driver and to be fitted with an overhead weapon station that will be provided as government-furnished equipment.
            The 4 x 4 vehicle is also required to be armour protected, including the engine compartment and have a minimum payload of 2,000 kg.
            The Danish Army currently operates a fleet of 36 MOWAG Eagle I 4 x 4 APVs based on a modified AM HMMWV chassis, which have seen extensive service at home and overseas. These were delivered from 1995 in two batches, 10 and then 26.
            The Danish Defence Agreement for the period 2005 until 2009 states that the country will improve its military capability in order to participate in international military operations. The procurement of these APVs and other purchases will enable this objective to be met.
            Following extensive trials in Denmark it is expected that the Army Materiel Command will award a contract for the selected vehicle by the end of this year. The APV programme is currently funded at 425 million DKr. (USD 70 million), which covers the supply of about 85 vehicles, weapons, communications equipment, training and integrated logistic support.
            The BAE Systems Land Systems RG-32M is the latest model of the proven RG-32 and has already been selected and is in quantity production for the Swedish Army.
            The MOWAG Eagle IV is the latest generation vehicle and is a follow on to the earlier Eagle I, II and III of which 485 have been built for the domestic and export market. It is based on the MOWAG Duro chassis with greater payload than the earlier vehicles.
            The Panhard VBR has been developed as private venture for a vehicle with greater capacity and internal volume than the current production VBL reconnaissance vehicle, of which over 2,000 have been built for the home and export markets.
            Textron Marine & Land Systems is currently in quantity production of the ASV for the US Army and Iraq (the company was awarded a contract to deliver 43 vehicles for the Iraqi Civil Intervention Force in 2004) where it has seen extensive operational use.

            (Jane's Defence Weekly, September 2005)
            Last edited by ZULU; 18 April 2007, 16:45.
            "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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            • #21
              Here's the result

              Look at the price they got them for: 85 + all the extras for US$ 38 million (28Million Euro)
              Should keep the bean counters happy

              Denmark selects the EAGLE IV as their new Armoured Patrol Vehicle

              Hjørring, Denmark - On December 09, 2005 the Danish Army Materiel Command (DAMC) and MOWAG GmbH – a General Dynamics company – signed a contract for the delivery of 85 units plus a small number for training and logistic reserve EAGLE IV 4x4 Armoured Patrol Vehicles (APV), including initial logistic support and services with a total value of close to 50 Million Swiss Francs (approx. US$ 38 Million). After five contracts for EAGLE I 4x4 and PIRANHA III 8x8 between 1995 and 2004, this contract adds the latest development of the Swiss company to the fleet of MOWAG vehicles operated by the Danish Army.


              In May 2005 the Danish Army Materiel Command (DAMC) had announced the procurement Program for new Danish Army Armoured Patrol Vehicles. Key requirements included the ability to carry 5 people, be fitted with an Overhead Weapon Station and provide ballistic and mine protection to the crew and engine compartment.

              Out of 11 companies that were selected to bid, four finally received an invitation to send their vehicles to undergo trials in Denmark . In September and October 2005, customer tests over an 8000 km distance were conducted including extensive off-road driving in all types of terrain, long distance on-road driving including German Autobahn, testing at the tough WTD 41 test facilities in Trier , Germany and troop trials on the isle of Bornholm . The outstanding performance of the EAGLE IV in the areas of on- and off road mobility, driving safety, crew comfort and vehicle versatility at an affordable price made the EAGLE IV the winner in this competition.

              MOWAG's CEO, Simon T. Honess, was proud and pleased about the selection of the EAGLE IV by Denmark , and he declared: „This contract is a great success for MOWAG as it marks a further proof of our customers' confidence in the performance and reliability of our products and company.

              The EAGLE IV, to be equipped with an Overhead Weapon Station, Communication and Battle Management System and various other equipment will further enhance the military capability of Denmark to participate in international operations. The threat situation in such missions specifically calls for a high level of protection for the vehicle crews against mines and ballistic weapons. With the EAGLE IV, the technology-minded company from Kreuzlingen , Switzerland offers a new product based on the well proven DURO family of vehicles, which fulfils this high-ranking requirement of protection, comfort and mobility.

              Production will take place at MOWAG's facility in Kreuzlingen and deliveries will commence in August 2006. Danish companies will be involved in the supply of various components and assemblies.


              -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

              Facts about the EAGLE IV 4x4

              With the EAGLE IV MOWAG is on the way to set another standard in the domain of armoured wheeled vehicles in the weight class up to 8 tons. The EAGLE IV is 5.37 m long, 2.16 m wide and offers seating space for 4-5 people. On the road, the EAGLE IV reaches a speed of 110 km/h; it manages gradients of up to 60% and obstacles with a height of up to 40 cm. The 245 HP Cummins engine, in connection with the Allison 5-speed automatic transmission, the unique De Dion axles with patented Roll Stabilizer, the tire pressure regulation system, and permanent all-wheel drive give the EAGLE IV an incomparable mobility both on- and off road.

              -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

              www.mowag.ch
              Last edited by ZULU; 18 April 2007, 16:49.
              "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

              Comment


              • #22
                Sweden Testing SA RG-32M

                "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                Comment


                • #23
                  These vehicles already have their role defined, as I said in my last post they are there to carry out roles carried out by non armoured vehicles in the past.

                  It has an infantry role:
                  Namely carrying kit back and forth from the F to A1 echelon same as in every other western army...like when you see senior NCOs driving around in a GS for three days on an exercise

                  It has a Cav role:
                  Carrying Recce teams in the same way a GS does

                  It has an Arty role:
                  Carrying radars that would have been towed by a GS or TCV in the past

                  It has an Engr Role:
                  Carrying Pioneer and EOD teams forward with specialist stores that would have been carried by a TCV or GS in the past

                  It has a CIS Role:
                  Being fitted for radio


                  As for weapons carrying, if they can fit a travel box for a Carl Gustav or an 81mm LB or a HMG in the boot...it is a weapons carrier.

                  Finally and mostly it is wanted for patrolling through potentially unsafe areas while on operations where a PIII is a bit on the big side and not really great for giving all round visibility in a hurry.
                  This is where the four doors with openable windows is really rather a must.
                  "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                  • #24
                    Japanese VBL lookalike....

                    Yet another stretched VBL lookalike is the Japanese ‘Light Armoured Combat Vehicle’, a 4.5 ton vehicle, 13.8 feet long and with a crew of four. It is fitted with a 160hp diesel engine, allowing it to reach top speeds of 100km/h. It can be carried by a CH-47J helicopter or C-130H transport aircraft for emergency air-drops.

                    The gun mount on the roof can be fitted with a 5.56mm MINIMI machine gun or Type 01 Light Anti-Tank Guided Missile. Vehicles deployed to the Iraq town of Samawa in 2004 were fitted with reinforced bullet-proof windshields and extra equipment such as wire cutters. Many vehicles also featured an armoured cover around the gun mount for extra protection.

                    Presumably the vehicle could be fitted with an RWS, like other vehicles in this class. The bigger problem is the Japanese ban on weapons exports... But then again, we already have Nissan Patrols....



                    More pics at



                    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...ad.php?t=91081 (scroll down)
                    Last edited by thebig C; 20 April 2007, 00:35.

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                    • #25
                      Maybe I should just get together a list of vehicles that would fit the role, post photos and spec for each and see where we go from there


                      The Russians have several vehicles that would do the job, but would we want them from Russia?
                      Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                      Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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                      • #26
                        I think you can forget about any panhard related products..army tied them selves up in knots with Panhard contracts for 30 years..they won't go down that road again..any VBL was tested 15 years ago..two small it was intended to replace the AML in the recce role.The cavs comitment to CTR has turned the requirement on its head..so bigger vehicle that VBL type needed.

                        on similar note...loks like our new general service vehicle and FFRs will be a land Rover product..so the word on the street is.
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Come-quickly View Post

                          Finally and mostly it is wanted for patrolling through potentially unsafe areas while on operations where a PIII is a bit on the big side and not really great for giving all round visibility in a hurry.
                          This is where the four doors with openable windows is really rather a must.

                          And thus effectively reducing your ARMOURED LTAV into another Nissan. Thats what A/C is for. Visibility is the ability to see, which you can do through windows, you dont need to roll them down and put your arm out the side!!

                          Below I've posted a template for people to use if suggesting a vehicle for consideration. I hope it will provide the clearest way of establishing the best units quickly and efficiently
                          Last edited by ZULU; 19 April 2007, 13:27.
                          "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Insert Vehicle name here

                            [Insert Pictures Here - Preferrably Black and white tech drawing showing dimensions and one colour photo of it in use]


                            [Vehicle Name here] ------------------ UNIT Price in Euro:

                            [Vehicle Manufacturer here]

                            Contract Requirements ------------- Yes / No --------Details

                            Armament
                            (min 7.62mm)

                            Armour
                            (7.62AP Protect min)
                            (Add on Capable)

                            CBRN Protect/Detect

                            Range
                            (250offR / 450onR)

                            Passengers
                            (4min)

                            Payload
                            (1m³ min) (150kg)

                            Tow Weight
                            (3.5Ton)

                            NATO Std Equip
                            (Tow hitch / Electrical Req)

                            Communications capable

                            Day/Night Sensor suite
                            "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              "Visibility is the ability to see, which you can do through windows, you dont need to roll them down and put your arm out the side!!"

                              ha..ha...ha...ha.ha....brilliant. i love it. don't forget being able to see through the cool sun glasses too!!!
                              An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mutter nutter View Post
                                Too small for my money..
                                We had that on trail in the late 90's..so I doubt its in the running..

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